The ILCA Dinghy became a reality

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#5
But the boats are made by PSA.
Exactly. They don't say "Laser" so they don't breach LP's trademark.

Interesting that this is already happening. But it's an understandable emergency measure at this point in time. In two weeks, we may not need those labels again!

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Thread starter #6
Exactly. They don't say "Laser" so they don't breach LP's trademark.

Interesting that this is already happening. But it's an understandable emergency measure at this point in time. In two weeks, we may not need those labels again!

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In your opinion, what do you prefer and why? LPE or PSA? I was using both boats, both spars/foils etc, and I prefer more PSA, it seems like they do everything on higher (I don't know how to explain) level. Especially spars.
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#8
It looks to me that this organization didn't want to pay for the Laser (registered) trademark. This makes sense for sailing schools and vacation sailing places (like Wildwind and Minorca Sailing). Maybe they won't pay for the (WorldSailing) plaque either.
More in general, this could be the future of "Laser/ILCA dinghy" sailing.
I have no problem with that...
 

torrid

Just sailing
#9
Kingston Ontario?

It would be one thing if PSA was shipping boats to a long-underserved place like Kingston, Jamaica. However if they are shipping boats into Canada, even without Laser trademarks, that's a pretty bold step into LP's supposed service area. Which they aren't serving.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#10
Home

Clearly, this organization didn't want to pay for the Laser (registered) trademark.
This organization is very legit. You just can't use the trademark on PSA-built boats in Canada, at the Radial Youth Worlds.

Maybe they didn't pay for the (WorldSailing) plaque either.
That would be PSA's business. Of course the boats have WS plaques. They don't say "Laser" anymore anyway.

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torrid

Just sailing
#11
Just so everyone is clear on what just happened here.

The use of practice sails, spars and blades for club racing has been accepted for some time. The same is now in place for hulls.

These PSA hulls may have appeared for a sanctioned event on a technicality. However, I guarantee PSA has plans in the works to bring in boats to North America. With or without plaques. You are soon going to see 99ers from South America and who knows what from China. Maybe LP will finally bring in a few new boats.

Outside of the Olympics continuing with the Laser, the current class vote just became a moot point.
 
#12
From Eric on Facebook responding to one of the posts about this:
Laser Performance approached the class and wanted to charge sailors +$2000 for a charter for the event in Canada. PSA offered a much better price. The boats were brought in on an ATA Carnet (temporary import) with different decals for trademark reasons. For racing, all the external decals have been removed. No issues with customs coming into Canada because they weren't using the trademark. The boats will be used at two events and then taken out of the country. This was all done to support sailors racing at reasonable costs.
Seems LP reduced their costs after PSA came to the party to provide cheaper charters for the kids
 

thieuster

Active Member
#13
That $ 2000 was exactly the reason why none of us (Dutch) is going to the event. We have to plan a trip like this, a long time before the actual event and all is on our own (parents) costs. Trip, hotel, charter, RIB charter etc make it all too expensive. Even parents with 'deep pockets' steer away from this event. Which is rather sad: just compare the entry list of the Kingston event with the entry list of the ISAF Youth Worlds...

The European countries that are attending the event, are the countries where the national sailing association (partly) pays for the sailors' participation. For us, the lowered charter rates came too late. It's (family) holiday-time here during the Kingston event. A late entry would have crossed family holiday plans as well.

Where's next year's event?
 

thieuster

Active Member
#15
Yes after writing my question, I realised that it's on ILCA's site as well... My son will be too old for the Youth championships and he's currently in transition to the Standard as well (which will be a struggle, since he's not very tall - options for a transfer to other boats like the 49 and the 470 are also considered )
 
Thread starter #16
Yes after writing my question, I realised that it's on ILCA's site as well... My son will be too old for the Youth championships and he's currently in transition to the Standard as well (which will be a struggle, since he's not very tall - options for a transfer to other boats like the 49 and the 470 are also considered )
Whatever you choose to do. But U21 STD Worlds will be somewhere in Italy too. 470/49er are cool dinghies for sure, I wish him good luck)
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#17
The use of practice sails, spars and blades for club racing has been accepted for some time. The same is now in place for hulls.
torrid, isn't this a bit of an overreaction? What is so different now? The boats in question won't affect the NA market as they're going elsewhere. Even if they'd stay, I don't see why they couldn't be sold as legal "Lasers" - the trademark limitations shouldn't concern them after they become used boats. How would even that affect things at the club level? If there were a market for fake hulls, wouldn't someone already have provided them?
I guarantee PSA has plans in the works to bring in boats to North America. With or without plaques.
What's the evidence? Of course PSA wants to sell their products globally once/if the market opens, but they can get all the plaques they want - it's rather LP who is now in the position where selling plaqueless boats is a realistic option.


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#18
I can't really see the rest of the world wanting to pay PSA list price + shipping, not the cheapest of the bunch. I am interested to see what PSA boats end up retailing for in other countries once the mess is sorted out.

I'm always surprised when I see Australian made products available in the US at a much lower retail price than they're available in Australia, to the point where importing from the US and paying shipping + import duty is cheaper than purchasing locally (Automotive products is where I've seen this mostly)
 

thieuster

Active Member
#19
PSA boats are considered to be better than LPE's. A few weeks back, I reported about an informal regatta in Scheveningen: All top-female sailors + Dutch youth crew went out for a weekend racing. The high number of PSA boats (sailed by European sailors I may add) compared with the total amount of competitors was noticeable! About 25% of the hulls was PSA's.
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
#20
Just so everyone is clear on what just happened here.

The use of practice sails, spars and blades for club racing has been accepted for some time. The same is now in place for hulls.

These PSA hulls may have appeared for a sanctioned event on a technicality. However, I guarantee PSA has plans in the works to bring in boats to North America. With or without plaques. You are soon going to see 99ers from South America and who knows what from China. Maybe LP will finally bring in a few new boats.

Outside of the Olympics continuing with the Laser, the current class vote just became a moot point.

Incorrect on several fronts:

1)- while some areas are allowing the use of non-class legal equipment. It is still NON-CLASS LEGAL. If you showed up at an upper level event with that equipment competitors and measurers would NOT allow you to compete.

2)- Without the Plaque a "Laser" or "ILCA Dingy" or "Thingmadoozie" will never be a class legal boat.

3)- The ILCA on the hull is no different from an advertisement or marketing blurb from an event sponsor.

4)- These PSA hulls are 100% class legal. LP is the only manufacturer I'm aware of who has distributed, (or attempted to) sell/distribute hulls as "practice boats" because ILCA would not issue them plaques.
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
#21
I can't really see the rest of the world wanting to pay PSA list price + shipping, not the cheapest of the bunch. I am interested to see what PSA boats end up retailing for in other countries once the mess is sorted out.

I'm always surprised when I see Australian made products available in the US at a much lower retail price than they're available in Australia, to the point where importing from the US and paying shipping + import duty is cheaper than purchasing locally (Automotive products is where I've seen this mostly)
I've heard several "finishing" quality related stories on LP boats. Assuming things hold together and unless LP works on quality and service I'll hold out for a PSA hull when the time for a new boat comes. Just my personal opinion.
 

thieuster

Active Member
#22
Word has it:

Contenders from Europe who’ve taken their own boat to Kingston have to remove the ‘Laser’ decal and replace it for the ‘ILCA’ decal.

Any confirmation on this?
 
Thread starter #23
Word has it:

Contenders from Europe who’ve taken their own boat to Kingston have to remove the ‘Laser’ decal and replace it for the ‘ILCA’ decal.

Any confirmation on this?
It might be truth. On ilca worldwide sure this championship named as ILCA Radial World Youth Championship, not as Laser Radial... Championship. And 4.7 has same situation.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#24
Contenders from Europe who’ve taken their own boat to Kingston have to remove the ‘Laser’ decal and replace it for the ‘ILCA’ decal.
Would make no sense. If the name is banned, then everybody would have to cover their sail insignia as well, and tape over every "Laser" on fittings... not happening. Who'd benefit from that? Or the other way round, whose loss is it if some of the boats don't display the name?

As I understand it, this is a "bring your own boat" event - the boat you bring may actually be your own, or a chartered one. It's just the new charter boats that were brought from outside the trademark region that should be affected in any way.

On ilca worldwide sure this championship named as ILCA Radial World Youth Championship, not as Laser Radial... Championship. And 4.7 has same situation.
The regatta logo doesn't say "Laser" but the official regatta website does.

But it's still four days until measurement begins. Things may still change.

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LaLi

Well-Known Member
#26
Where?

the ICLA decals are being removed from the PSA boats before racing begins
What's the point of that? Aren't you free to have any sticker on the boat, chartered or not?

Damn, the boats should be able to say "PSA" in big red letters! The only thing they can't do is to sell them in Canada as new boats.

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Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#27
This is almost funny...
The short life of the ILCA Dinghy...
:)

Or will it come back to life? We might get an idea in a few weeks, after the voting ends.
 
#29
Where?

What's the point of that? Aren't you free to have any sticker on the boat, chartered or not?

Damn, the boats should be able to say "PSA" in big red letters! The only thing they can't do is to sell them in Canada as new boats.

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Eric's posts are in the comments of this thread at the Sailors Voice Facebook page: Leonardo Ciasca
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#30
You can have within reason anything on the side of the hull, although certain areas are specifically held for regatta advertising.
 
Thread starter #31
Sorry once again that not about the theme of the thread but I got one more question, what's the color of PSJ's boats? As I've seen they're just white,but maybe I'm wrong‍♂️
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#35
It says, "Portsmouth Olympic harbour, Kin..." on the pictures. That's Kingston, Ontario :rolleyes:

As said before, this what new PSA boats have to say in LP territory, before any contract allowing otherwise is signed.

The best part? These plaques say "Bruce Kirby" once again!

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Thread starter #36
It says, "Portsmouth Olympic harbour, Kin..." on the pictures. That's Kingston, Ontario :rolleyes:

As said before, this what new PSA boats have to say in LP territory, before any contract allowing otherwise is signed.

The best part? These plaques say "Bruce Kirby" once again!

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I'm not understanding, is that good or it is not, that these plaques mentoring Bruce Kirby ?
 
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