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Scorpion sailboat

HennyG

New Member
Ask and you shall receive. BTW, I posted these on the old Yahoo forum rip.

I am glad I am digging here. I just purchased a scorpion and am beginning to panic. I bought it after looking at the hull from a distance and knowing next to nothing about it. After buying it and trying to move it I realized though it seems intact it weighs 250 lbs and is full of water.

I am hoping mine also has the drain hole on the starboard side. With the amount of water in it I am not sure if it can ever dry out without placing a few inspection ports. I will start with opening the drain and doing some positioning.

I have yet to open up the sail and see what I got myself into. Thanks for posting the schematics, I couldn't figure out how to get them out of the yahoo archive.
 

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Please post pictures of the boats, it helps generate suggestions for repairs and we like seeing the photos.

First, Brian thanks for posting that info long ago and for sharing it again today. There is still some traffic on the new group, and all of the old FIles, Photoa and Messages are there, we ported them over last year. Wayne passed the Group to Keith who passed it along to us, so if anyone is looking for something do a search there as well as here or ask us, you friendly Maritime Librarians.

2. Henny G let's see a photo of your boat, first thing to do is to do iw weigh it, do an air leak test and then a good bath to assess condition. The hull should weigh approx 140 pounds.

3. BrainC I wouldn't worry about the foam, the small amount removed for a deck plate is not significant, plus installation of the plate will help stiffen the area. We use 6 inch plates amidships and 5 inch aft due to differences in deck camber.

Scorpions are Clonefish, the only boat we ever took to nautical Valhalla was a Scorpion, someone had "repaired" fiberglass damage on the bottom by pouring polyester resin all over the hull, it looked like pancake syrup, weighed a ton. We liberated the rig, trim, rudder etc...and put them on a 1971 restoration named SASSY.

Audrey pose Sassy.jpg

Most Sunfish parts will ship over to Scorpions, and rudders convert also.

Scorpion 6.jpeg

Scorpion 5.jpeg
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
Because of "rocker", a transom drain is of special value if the boat is stored on a ramp—or the trailer/dolly maintained at a tilt. (Then, subject to storm damage). :eek:

I installed one, and wish I hadn't. :(

If no ramp—and while you've got the tools ready, why not seal 'er up? :cool:
 
I have everything except some stainless bolts and a few brushes. I do need to take out the bolt that broke off in my backing plate. That will be fairly easy.

I thought about replacing the aluminum backing plate with a larger version the spread the load over the older -non damaged parts. I noticed the other block was wrapped in fiberglass, which I would like some info on before doing that myself.

I would appreciate some direction. I was thinking about doing the following, please let me know if you have suggestions. This is my first time working on the transom and I don't have any idea how strong it needs to be to hold the rudder.

1. Clean out the expanding foam from the sides of the white block and cut the hole for an inspection port
2. patch the hole from the outside.
3. Reinforce it from the inside with a couple layers that extend past the damage working through inspection port hole.
4. Drill holes for the backing plate and install the backing plate with screws in place just to hold the plate.
5. Lay a couple more layers of fiberglass over the small backing plate with screws keeping it in place.
6. Take one screw out at a time and drill the holes out.
7. Paint over the patch.
8. Mount the Gudgeon
9. Install the inspection port bezel.
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
You can buy (or make) a panel of fiberglass. ("Make" on a flat piece of plastic, which will release the panel once it's cured).

I'd make it somewhat oversized, and seal it to the inside. Build up layers on the outside to make it fair to the rest of the transom.

When launching bow-first into water, my friends pushed me and my Sunfish off the dock, not mindful that my weight (plus the boat) were going to hit the dock on the gudgeon. :eek:

So I tend to make things stronger than they need to be—and mucho fiberglass adds a very small penalty in weight. :cool:
 
You can buy (or make) a panel of fiberglass. ("Make" on a flat piece of plastic, which will release the panel once it's cured).

I'd make it somewhat oversized, and seal it to the inside. Build up layers on the outside to make it fair to the rest of the transom.

When launching bow-first into water, my friends pushed me and my Sunfish off the dock, not mindful that my weight (plus the boat) were going to hit the dock on the gudgeon. :eek:

So I tend to make things stronger than they need to be—and mucho fiberglass adds a very small penalty in weight. :cool:
After I make the flat piece of fiberglass and let it dry, slide it in with a layer of epoxy on back side of what is left of my transom to stick it against? Maybe wedge some plastic bags in to keep the pressure? I agree I would like to make it stout. So I am guessing your gudgeon did not survive against the dock?
 

HennyG

New Member
Please post pictures of the boats, it helps generate suggestions for repairs and we like seeing the photos.

First, Brian thanks for posting that info long ago and for sharing it again today. There is still some traffic on the new group, and all of the old FIles, Photoa and Messages are there, we ported them over last year. Wayne passed the Group to Keith who passed it along to us, so if anyone is looking for something do a search there as well as here or ask us, you friendly Maritime Librarians.

2. Henny G let's see a photo of your boat, first thing to do is to do iw weigh it, do an air leak test and then a good bath to assess condition. The hull should weigh approx 140 pounds.

3. BrainC I wouldn't worry about the foam, the small amount removed for a deck plate is not significant, plus installation of the plate will help stiffen the area. We use 6 inch plates amidships and 5 inch aft due to differences in deck camber.

Scorpions are Clonefish, the only boat we ever took to nautical Valhalla was a Scorpion, someone had "repaired" fiberglass damage on the bottom by pouring polyester resin all over the hull, it looked like pancake syrup, weighed a ton. We liberated the rig, trim, rudder etc...and put them on a 1971 restoration named SASSY.



Most Sunfish parts will ship over to Scorpions, and rudders convert also.

Not sure how I am going to weigh the scorpion but from the sloshing sound I hear when I rock the boat I wouldn't be surprised if 1/3 of the hull is full of water. It is very heavy. I will see if I can bring a scale and draft some helpers to pick her up and get a weight. I got her at an estate sale and it looks like she was stored against the outside of a shed for an extended time.

1619497571491.png

1619497649030.png

Once I got some of the mud off the hull doesn't look that terrible but I can't easily roll the boat over by myself. Very heavy.

First problem I have is how to open the drain. I am afraid I am going to strip the plug with a screwdriver and it looks corroded at the junction. Can I use B'laster P16 to try to lossen the screw? What kind of tool will fit in the groove and let me turn it?

1619498021188.png
 
After spraying PB blaster or lithium grease and letting it soak, I would start with a quarter and maybe work up to a big screw driver if that did not work. Your boat looks way cleaner than mine did when I started. I would not get too excited about the drain, they are easily replaceable and not that expensive.
 

danpal

Active Member
If you have one of these painting tools, they work really well in opening the drain plug. The flat section opposite from the point fits in the grove and you get great leverage when turning the plug. I couldn't get my drain plug open for years and I tried everything. This worked the first try.

1619520472715.png
 

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
There are several ways to fix those holes, I'd also put in and internal patch first, to repair the transom and cover up that drain hole.
In no particular order Option one is a Blind Hole Patch, no inspection port required. You could leave a small opening in the middle of it to insert you gudgeon backer or build a backer into the patch, I know you're thinking screws and nuts but the latest Sunfish use self threading marine stainless into an aluminum backer.

RM 4 Blind Hole Patch.jpg


Option two is to split the hull/deck seam and pop open the trunk, that's how the factory would have repaired them. The reseal the area like no one was ever there. You could scoop out excess adhesive foam that is in there. Always always always leave the white blocks with a small amount of adhesive attaching them.

hoops stern foam blob.jpg


Option 3 is the deck plate and there are a lot of benefits to that. Most backing plates were held in place with what we call a fiberglass strap, and as you mentioned the gudgeon plate on a Sunfish was pretty much encapsulated. There is no need for a backer plate larger than the gudgeon plate unless you plan to dock launch like L&VW :)

Patch from the inside first, then build up layers of fiberglass, we use 4 oz strips, inside the void where the transom piece used to be. Leave the repair just a little shallow so you can fair and paint/gel coat.

You could epoxy the plate into place without the fiberglass cloth. Actually if you have an inspection port there is no need to permanently attach the plate if you put the port in a spot where you can reach the plate.
 

HennyG

New Member
If you have one of these painting tools, they work really well in opening the drain plug. The flat section opposite from the point fits in the grove and you get great leverage when turning the plug. I couldn't get my drain plug open for years and I tried everything. This worked the first try.

View attachment 45472
I used exactly the same tool (except it didn't say Warner and doesnt have the little tear drop in the middle), on my third attempt. Unfortunately it wouldn't budge. I am going to try to let the corrosion oil set in and then I will try again.
 

HennyG

New Member
Another question to throw out, though it is a bit ahead of where I am on getting this boat back in the water.

On the picture I posted above the rudder bridle cable is snapped. On the Sunfishdirect website I found a - Two Loop Bridle part 9154 for $20 that I think would work. My question is on attaching it. I can unscrew one end of each eyestrap and slide the loop in. Will I be able to screw the eyestrap back afterwards or is there a washer and nut on the back that will fall into the boat afterwards? Right now I have no access to the inside of the hull.
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
Should be an easy "unscrew-slip-loop-re-screw". It is on a Sunfish, anyway. :rolleyes:

eBay has $20 2-loop bridles made and sold by a disabled veteran.
 
There are several ways to fix those holes, I'd also put in and internal patch first, to repair the transom and cover up that drain hole.
In no particular order Option one is a Blind Hole Patch, no inspection port required. You could leave a small opening in the middle of it to insert you gudgeon backer or build a backer into the patch, I know you're thinking screws and nuts but the latest Sunfish use self threading marine stainless into an aluminum backer.

View attachment 45473


Option two is to split the hull/deck seam and pop open the trunk, that's how the factory would have repaired them. The reseal the area like no one was ever there. You could scoop out excess adhesive foam that is in there. Always always always leave the white blocks with a small amount of adhesive attaching them.

View attachment 45474


Option 3 is the deck plate and there are a lot of benefits to that. Most backing plates were held in place with what we call a fiberglass strap, and as you mentioned the gudgeon plate on a Sunfish was pretty much encapsulated. There is no need for a backer plate larger than the gudgeon plate unless you plan to dock launch like L&VW :)

Patch from the inside first, then build up layers of fiberglass, we use 4 oz strips, inside the void where the transom piece used to be. Leave the repair just a little shallow so you can fair and paint/gel coat.

You could epoxy the plate into place without the fiberglass cloth. Actually if you have an inspection port there is no need to permanently attach the plate if you put the port in a spot where you can reach the plate.
Awesome post, so many options! I do like the idea of not having a port. The boat has stayed pretty dry. Also, less carving necessary into the foam beams. So, I am thinking now about building the fiberglass patch and backing plate sandwich oversized to fill the entire hole. Using the existing threads in the backer plate and some new stainless bolts to slip in the assembly in place and hold it while it cures against the hole. Once it drys build it up from the outside.

Thank You!
 

HennyG

New Member
Finally I got the drain plug off.

I think it was a combination of 24 hours soaking with PB Blaster and a drain plug removal tool I bought at fleet farm.

1619923656473.png

Unfortunately I didn't get all that much water out of it. I can still hear some sloshing inside and will recruit some help so that I can lift the boat and give it a good shaking.

When I did roll it I did see water coming out from the daggerboard hole and I think also in an area between the deck and the hull.

Should my next step be a soap leak test, or should I put in an inspection port and dry out the inside?
 

HennyG

New Member
By the way. While lifting and shaking my boat I was lucky enough to discover this enhancement placed by a previous owner.

1619923822452.png

Despite sitting out in the elements for many years the edge is still razor sharp and now coated with rust. Nearly tore my hand open lifting it up. I going to hunt for a nut, washer and a short machine screw to replace this.
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
Nice pictures. Here is the picture of my boat in need of gudgeon repair.
Well, there's one port! ;)

Ports are handy for storing stuff, but if you don't want one on the deck, you can cut a 6-inch hole in the bottom--next to the daggerboard trunk. (Where a repair will stiffen the hull, allow removal of saturated yellow "factory" foam, permit the dry-out of the hull after weeks of active air movement, where you can inspect the daggerboard trunk, won't show after the hull is dried, and after the hole is sealed back up).
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
I am glad I am digging here. I just purchased a scorpion I realized though it seems intact it weighs 250 lbs and is full of water.

I am hoping mine also has the drain hole on the starboard side. With the amount of water in it I am not sure if it can ever dry out without placing a few inspection ports. I will start with opening the drain and doing some positioning.

I have yet to open up the sail and see what I got myself into. Thanks for posting the schematics, I couldn't figure out how to get them out of the yahoo archive.
While you'd be correct to position the open drain down, I perceive one or two ports in your future. :oops:

(The drain is intended to drain natural condensation--a soaked interior would "weep" indefinitely). :(

The drying of a saturated hull will take weeks (or months): Whatever yellow-pillowy "factory" foam you can remove by hand will speed up the process. Leave intact whatever is directly above or below the structural white foam.

Dry-out can be active (fans, heat, ducts) or passive (inverted outdoors in the sun, covered with black plastic). Check progress by weight. There is a "curve" which tapers off as the yellow foam dries out.
 

HennyG

New Member
While you'd be correct to position the open drain down, I perceive one or two ports in your future. :oops:

(The drain is intended to drain natural condensation--a soaked interior would "weep" indefinitely). :(

The drying of a saturated hull will take weeks (or months): Whatever yellow-pillowy "factory" foam you can remove by hand will speed up the process. Leave intact whatever is directly above or below the structural white foam.

Dry-out can be active (fans, heat, ducts) or passive (inverted outdoors in the sun, covered with black plastic). Check progress by weight. There is a "curve" which tapers off as the yellow foam dries out.
Well with the help of some more PB Blaster I was able to get the wood screw out of the deck and I am less likely to need stitches every time I try to roll her.

I am also beginning to resign myself to a future of ports.

How many? Where? What size?

I was going to start with one, but maybe I already need two.
My inclination is at least one in the back so that I have access to the bridle hardware in case there is no backing there.
I see a lot of ports that are 4, 5 or 6 inches available on amazon.
By the way I got the boat on a scale and was in the neighborhood of 160 lbs.

Henny
 

HennyG

New Member
While you'd be correct to position the open drain down, I perceive one or two ports in your future. :oops:

(The drain is intended to drain natural condensation--a soaked interior would "weep" indefinitely). :(

The drying of a saturated hull will take weeks (or months): Whatever yellow-pillowy "factory" foam you can remove by hand will speed up the process. Leave intact whatever is directly above or below the structural white foam.

Dry-out can be active (fans, heat, ducts) or passive (inverted outdoors in the sun, covered with black plastic). Check progress by weight. There is a "curve" which tapers off as the yellow foam dries out.
Speaking of drains. I hosed the boat down and noticed that the tub holds water well.

1620068899458.png

Is this correct behavior when the boat is sitting in the yard or do I need to fix or replace the Bailer system?

Henny
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
Newer models of metal De Persia bailers are of the pop-up type. Unscrew or pull up to drain. If stuck, great patience must be endured, along with multiple treatments of PB Blaster, Kroll, Marvel Mystery Oil, CRC products, or Rust-Bust. ,
 

HennyG

New Member
Not cutting ports is great. I will weigh it again with some help so that I can be a bit more accurate.

I may also start with a line tied as a bridle so that I don't have to worry about not getting the bridle hardware back on (since I won't have a port to get underneath.

I am going to play some more with the bailer and see if I can get it to empty. There is a round piece that turns but didn't do much. Maybe I didn't turn it enough, at first I was afraid I would remove it, but now I see there is a 1 1/2 inch bolt that probably memes it. I will get some PB Blaster into the bailer from top and bottom.

I will also work out the air leak test. I have see water come out of the daggerboard slot so somewhere in there is a leak, and I am sure elsewhere.
I also found a crack in the cockpit on the side, just past a missing rivet. Am I going to be able to repair that without removing all the other rivets and getting underneath?



1620100087744.png
 

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Yes you can replace that rivet. The rivet hole should only be about 1/4 inch deep, and should not go through the other side of the trim. Poke around in the hole with an awl or small drill bit to see if any old rivet bits remain. If so, drill them out gently with a 1/8th inch drill bit.

Do you have a rivet gun and 1/8th inch diameter aluminum rivets with 1/8 or 1/4 inch grip (depth)? SOme trim pieces like the shorter rivets better, some like the medium grip. Lowes sells an Arrow brand rivet gun and rivet pack with assorted sizes. Do not use steel rivets, they cause dissimilar metal corrosion and are near impossible to remove cleanly. When we buy the assorted pack we immediately throw away the steel rivets :)

Rivet sizes trim.png


 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
I also found a crack in the cockpit on the side, just past a missing rivet. Am I going to be able to repair that without removing all the other rivets and getting underneath?
Assuming you mean to repair the crack?

Removing a few rivets will permit ready access underneath.

I've removed the entire cockpit trim, as the trim adds to the strength of the edge--some rivets are sheared off--and only have the appearance of attachment and grip. Some holes in the fiberglass are fractured. :( I've drilled new holes, and added rivets even without a grip for appearance' sake. ;)

Repair the crack with a couple layers of cloth applied underneath at 45 degree angles--or use biaxial tape. (Biaxial tape must be ordered online).

Replace all the rivets: it goes quickly after a few are replaced.

I took the precaution of also gluing the trim-in, for strength. (Optional).
 
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