Radial v Standard - different clew height ?

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189402

Chris
Hi,

I tried a few searches on the forum for this question without success.

I recently bought a used Radial lower section and mark 5 sail. I rigged the boat to check that all was OK and noticed that the boom seemed much higher at the aft end compared to my standard. I measured my radial and standard (with no vang/kicker connected) and found that the Radial was about 2 inches higher off the transom. Is this normal ? I took a quick look at a couple of Radials at my club last weekend and to the eye they looked about the same as a standard, but I didn't have a tape measure to hand. I used the same (straight) top section for both rigs and both standard and radial lower sections are straight. I looked carefully at the sail and there does not seems to be any repairs to the sail or webbing at the top. Any ideas ? Thanks.
PS anyone going to the UK Masters Inlands at Queen Mary SC this weekend ?
 
I've never actually measured my radial against a standard rig bottom section but should be the same height. I use the same kicker whether I am sailing radial, full rig or 8.1 and it doesn't require any adjustment.

Too young for the masters circuit yet, be there in a few years. Your circuit looks a lot more fun than the qualifiers where everyone takes it ever so seriously!
 
There should be quite a few radials at Queen Mary SC tomorrow - 17th Oct for the Masters Inland Championship so I'll have a good look at them and maybe take a few measurements. It's my first Masters event so I'm really looking forward to it, my kids think it's just a bunch of old folk trying to sail boats that are too fast for them ;)
 
Did you get much wind at QMSC? How'd you get on?. Not much on sat down here and absolutly nothing on Sunday, although a few silly buggers tried a race, with half the fleet then having to be towed home against the tide!
 
We had some wind at QMSC on Saturday, maybe 8 knotts. They squeezed four races in on Sat as the forecast for Sunday was not looking good. I did OK for my first big event in a dinghy for 17 years. The starts were very difficult, I couldn't find any space on the line, think I'm going to have to practice that. I finished low 30's out of 54 with one finish in the 20's. We didn't get any races in on Sunday. I'm looking forward to the next open, maybe at Burghfield.

As for the clew height problem, I spoke to Steve Cockerill about it, he suggested it might be a real old Radial bottom section which were about 2 inches longer so I'll have to measure it and check.
 
I was thinking you had an older bottom section, but most people notice the cunningham cringle is 2" higher off the gooseneck before they notice the clew height difference?

If you compare yours to the specs posted in the official rules book, and find it's longer, then you might just be able to cut it off at the top. However, some of these older, longer bottom sections were early "M" rig spars, and might be different wall thickness than a modern radial spar. The earliest were same thickness wall tubes as a full rig, and just cut down. The modern radial bottom has a thinner wall that the full spar, and has a sleeve inserted in the lower section, that shows in the specs drawings.

If you have the oldest M-Radial spar that is full 1/16" wall, then it's not really salvageable to race, as it's stiff, and won't bend to match the luff curve of a radial sail. It is quite useable for practice, if you like to just do screaming reaches on some crazy day without worrying about a bend/break etc.

If you have the thinner (smaller OD tube, with a sleeve), then just cutting it down will make it quite useable, and even legal? I'd cut it to the longest possible but still in the specified tolerance, to preserve it's leech stretching ability. But Steve and/or others might think it won't actually compare, or ever be as good at the top level...
 
Quite right vtgent49, the radial bottom section was shortened sometime between 1993 and 1996. They were shortened by 50mm and only involved cutting the end off the older spars. We still find some during measuring that are of the longer length.
 
ILCA Handbook from No. 4 from May 1983 shows the Radial bottom section as being 2,312mm in length overall (including base plug).

Handbook number 5 from 1996 gives the overall length as 2,262mm the same as it is today.

The height of the gooseneck pin should be the same - 945mm from the bottom of the base plug.

The max luff length from 1993 shown on the Radial sail measurement diagram was 4,470mm and this was increased to 4,560mm in 1996 which is unchanged in the current handbook.

(The old M rig was unrelated to the Radial and used the same bottom section as the standard full rig but with a different top section.)
 
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