My point here is that it doesn't matter what sail we use but it is important that we all use the same sail.
Apples vs Oranges, and no they don'tdo the Sunfish guys have the same issue with their sail?
Apples vs Oranges, and no they don't
I took "same issue" to mean short life relative to cost...Actually, there are gripes on www.sunfishforum.com that Sunfish sails and other LaserPerformance parts for the Sunfish are 'backordered' with unknown delivery dates....
For instance, see http://www.sunfishforum.com/showthread.php?t=34308
I took "same issue" to mean short life relative to cost...
I2. RULES
2.1. The Regatta will be governed by the Racing Rules of Sailing, 2009-2012.
2.2. For any class being scored as a one-design class, individual class rules will be in effect except as
noted.
2.2.1 Laser class is allowed to use non class sails (APS/Intensity)
I just pulled this from a post on Sailing Anarchy:
Our club (SMSA in Solomons, MD) is hosting a Dinghy Regatta at the end of September, we will have a Laser OD class but it is not a sanctioned event so our PRO wrote the following into the NOR. Very clear that the boat must be OD compliant with the exception of the sail.
2. RULES
2.1. The Regatta will be governed by the Racing Rules of Sailing, 2009-2012.
2.2. For any class being scored as a one-design class, individual class rules will be in effect except as
noted.
2.2.1 Laser class is allowed to use non class sails (APS/Intensity)
The problem is that you cannot vary the class rules using an NOR or SIs. This is in the RRS.
The way around it is to 'create' a local class that has exactly the sames rules as another class with the exception of the rules you want to vary. There is no rules against that...
No shortage of dockhouse lawyers around here.
Sunfish sails last much longer, but that does not stop Sunfish sailors from complaining that the sails cost too much. We have the exact same Intensity vs. LP/North discussions regarding price. Because the North sails last quite a while you don't see many intensity sails, so I don't know if there is a speed difference. TUM
a) you have a singlehanded class where the boat type is not specified,
b) you have a gentleman's agreement amongst all the racers that "its ok" and nobody will protest.
So does this allow me to enter the regatta with a fully battened, oversized mylar sail and call it a "replica laser sail" since laser class specs don't need to be met? Who decides which class specifications aren't met and which "replica" laser equipment is legal and illegal?
In theory yes.... which is why it is a bad idea.
Can it be considered a "replica" if it in no way, shape or form replicates a current class sail design? For instance. How many replica Cobras, (the car) do you see on the road, but can't visually tell the difference?
We just finished the Finn Gold Cup at my marina (Plug: site for the 2011 4.7 & Masters Worlds!) and they had two and a half days of measurement for their boats!
The measurement was pretty elaborate and complicated too, involving not just the lenghth and breadth on mast and hull but the weight and balance points too. The sails also required measurement. It took lots of volunteers to set up and get everyone through the process (and there were only 90-some entries for their world championships). Observing this sure made me glad that we don't have to do that with the Lasers. Oh and don't even mention the costs of their gear - the mast alone is half a new Laser's cost.
So my thinking is: be careful what we ask for. A "better" sail is a great idea but going down the slippery slope of opening up the sails to different manufacturers would make for some significant changes in how we do things.
So why should those of us outside North America be forced to import (roughly $US40 or if the supplier was in the UK about $US80) a sail from the North America, where we could get our own Chinese replica sail sail cheaper from a local "sail maker". I'm sure New Zealand would want their own, as would the UK, Germany etc. So you'll find that their are suddenly need to be 40 or 50 "approved" suppliers.Here is a perfect example of scare tactics. Nobody rational is suggesting the market should be opened to all sailmakers to build one at a time specialty sails. The suggestion has been to have the class APPROVE A SUPPLIER OTHER THAN THE BUILDERS.
The one supplier's product would be easy to identify and just as easy to measure as the current sails.
Look. Find usual sail. Smile. Go sailing.
Fact is, the approval of a properly priced high quality durable alternative would remove the incentive to bring cheater sails.
Then the rumours might start about the new sail being faster under particular conditions so people would start needing both sails so they can chose depending on the conditions on the day/race. Then those with less money start considering themselves at a disadvantage.
Of course there are differences between different boats (age of sail, condition of hull, etc.) but these are difficult to eliminate given the technology employed. However, to introduce a different sail would be giving official approval to the end of the strict one design - one of the attributes that makes the class so popular.
Of course when a new sail is eventually introduced (if ever) then the same will apply but that cannot be avoided and sails (new and old designs) do wear out so over time most will have switched to the new design. During the change over period same rumours will apply but this will be for a limited time.
Ian
So why should those of us outside North America be forced to import (roughly $US40 or if the supplier was in the UK about $US80) a sail from the North America ...
If Intensity can make a profit by making a similar and more durable sail that sells for 200 Dollars roughly, plus extras, there's a lot one can afford to pay for shipping until you reach even half of the price of the current official sail.