new sail bigger than previous

K

keenbean

Member
Hi,

I got a new sail today and when laying it out on top of the old one to stick the numbers on, I realised it is slightly wider and longer than the old one. We had three of us on it and this definitely appears to be the case!

Has anyone else had this before? I'm guessing it's a good thing!
 
There is a fair amount of variations between sails. Desite being computer cut, they are still hand sown.
 
Hmmm.... You would think that for the price there would be better quality control.

You would also think that a bigger sail wouldn't measure in... and be legal.

Does it have a $400.00 button?
 
Trippin said:
Hmmm.... You would think that for the price there would be better quality control.

You would also think that a bigger sail wouldn't measure in... and be legal.

Does it have a $400.00 button?
Click to expand...

Who says the bigger sail doesn't measure in. Every measurement on the laser sail, with respect to it's measurement is a maximum, there are no minimiums except associated with the batten pocket lengths, where their is a 40mm tolerance.

All that's happened is the new sail is closer to the maximium dimensions than the older sail and even then another sail could still be larger and still measure in.
 
Every mark6 radial sail I have bought has been progressively bigger than the last. They are all class legal, its just the variance in actually putting the pieces together.
 
It's also worth noting that dacron is woven polyester which shrinks at quite low temperatures. I'm not say that the sails shrink, but I wouldn't be surprised either, but it could also explain the phenomina that Sailorchick notes and my observations as well that the older sails tend to be smaller than a brand new sail out of the bag.
 
I second what Alan says. An old sail will be smaller as a result of shrinkage. I know when I dont sail my boat that the sail needs a few pulls on the cunningham to sit right on the mast.

Much more noticable with a fil sail though. This is why most film sails have a few inches of bolt rope poking out the bottom so you can unstitch it and let the sail sort itself out after a bit of use.
 
There was a crusty old Sunfish sailor at one of my old sailing clubs. When he wanted a new sail, the dealer would let him cherry-pick the sail he wanted. He'd lay a dozen sails on top of each other until he found one with the correct shape.
 
3 years ago I spent the extra dollars for a Hyde Sail and despite it being "class legal" the sail was almost 3" longer when I fanned the luff vs my old sail. This sail was useless because I could not tighten the cunningham as the grommet was already at the boom without tension. It was quite the battle to get it replaced as Colie said that this is a Vanguard issue and Vanguard said "this never happens, all sails are made the same'

Since then I have found that there huge variances between the sails amongst other Laser buddies. I am beginning to think that this class legal BS is a shame, it is a way to line the pockets of Laser, Vanguard and the the two sail manufacturers. The quality control with North and Hyde has lots to be desired.

Funny thing is the my non legal Intensity sail are identical to each other and have no variances between them and was less then $200 which further rubs salt in to the wound.

Folks, it is all kickbacks and ripping off the class, if an independent supplier that has less volume can make a business out of it by selling near identical parts for a fraction of what the official parts cost, there is something very wrong
 
monkeys-hear-no-evil-see-no-evil-speak-no-evil.jpg
 
jeffers said:
I second what Alan says. An old sail will be smaller as a result of shrinkage. I know when I dont sail my boat that the sail needs a few pulls on the cunningham to sit right on the mast.

Much more noticable with a fil sail though. This is why most film sails have a few inches of bolt rope poking out the bottom so you can unstitch it and let the sail sort itself out after a bit of use.
Click to expand...

Mylar sails shrink over time because of all the crinkles the sail gets from use (mostly flaking the sail) This is opposite for Dacron sails which stretch over time. This is due to the crimp in the cloth relaxing with more use. This is why an older sail will have more camber.

I bet that if you measure a sample of "identical" new sails, you will find large differences in the cut. This happens in all one design classes, and is the reason top sailors in any class measure a new sail from their sailmaker before accepting it. My guess is that the new sails appear to be getting bigger because the quality control is getting tighter on them.

It should be noted that I am not a Laser expert, nor do I know much about all the class politics, but I do know a little about sailcloth and design.
 
boom vang said:
3 years ago I spent the extra dollars for a Hyde Sail and despite it being "class legal" the sail was almost 3" longer when I fanned the luff vs my old sail. This sail was useless because I could not tighten the cunningham as the grommet was already at the boom without tension. It was quite the battle to get it replaced as Colie said that this is a Vanguard issue and Vanguard said "this never happens, all sails are made the same'

Since then I have found that there huge variances between the sails amongst other Laser buddies. I am beginning to think that this class legal BS is a shame, it is a way to line the pockets of Laser, Vanguard and the the two sail manufacturers. The quality control with North and Hyde has lots to be desired.

Funny thing is the my non legal Intensity sail are identical to each other and have no variances between them and was less then $200 which further rubs salt in to the wound.

Folks, it is all kickbacks and ripping off the class, if an independent supplier that has less volume can make a business out of it by selling near identical parts for a fraction of what the official parts cost, there is something very wrong
Click to expand...

There are plenty of other classes around if you don't like it.
 
its the same with sails in the uk too as i have 2 identical full sails but my practice sail is a whole inch longer at the leach but it does tighten up to the end of the boom correctley although it is quite baggy in the middle and my practice sail is only one month older than my good sail
 
AlanD said:
There are plenty of other classes around if you don't like it.
Click to expand...

Last time I checked, forum = open discussion. We are at The Laser Forum?
We all have flaws, me, the Laser, and perhaps even you, Alan; so what can be so bad about discussing and contemplating fixing them?

I resisted getting a Laser for several reasons, which I am not gonna bore you all with, bought another boat that I really enjoy, also. Finally, in the interest of improving my sailing as rapidly as possible and getting clloser to my goals (as I keep hearing over and over it will), I gave in for the most compelling reason presented to me - and that is the community of Laser sailors. Yeah, I'm a FNG. Andy
 
There is nothing wrong with discussing the problems of the class here, but it isn't going to fix the problems.

How many of the people here have made written complaints to the ILCA, their builder, their World Council member about the quality, cost, etc. If people are so upset about the class, then make your opinions known to those that are the decision makers.

The equipment supplied by the manufacturers generally measures in, it is generally within the building tolerances and generally meets the one design principles specified in the class rules and builders manual, it doesn't mean that those builders can't do a better job and work within tighter internally specified tolerances, improving quality control and working to reduce the costs.

If the class rules, quality, cost doesn't meet your expectations, then yes there are other classes around that might work better for you. Further if large numbers of people actually did leave the class then it might attract the attention of the decision makers but jumping up and down in cyber world won't achieve much.
 
Well said Alan!

I think the ever increasing use and acceptance of replica sails has got the builder sitting up and taking notice. Most people will not complain to the class because:

1) They are not CA members anyway
2) They will vote with their wallet

Anyway I digress this thread is not about that issue which has been done to death many times. I have owned several Lasers over the years and notice that all the sails were slightly different sizes bith new and old.
 
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