LP no longer an approved builder-- why?

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#61
Shows desperation from LP's part to clutch at any straw to make them look like the good guys in the story.

Also interesting that LP now wants the class office to be in Europe. Some kind of control thing for them I suppose, because what should that matter in reality?

_
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#62
Mmmm perhaps is the discussion between Aussie and LPE boats not so far off topic as we initially thought...

LPE claims that Australian boats don't comply with the rules and that ILCA was informed quite some time ago.

LPE on 'too fast Aussie boats'
The trouble with this argument is that the ICLA inspects the factories specifically to check that the boats are being built in a manner that complies with the Construction Manual and the boats do measure in within the specs. The only group not complying is LP
 
#63
The statement below has been on the home page of laser.org.uk for several days.

Training boats

Laser Performance has introduced the Laser 'Club Edition', described as a training boat which does not bear the World Sailing Building Plaque or a Sail Button. This is fine as a training boat but we feel it is important to clarify that these boats are not Class legal based on the Fundamental Rule within the Laser Class Rules. These boats will be ineligible to compete in any UKLA sanctioned events, broadly speaking but not exclusively, those advertised on the UKLA website. Whilst the UKLA would like all Laser racing to be conducted strictly in accordance with the Class Rules, it does not consider it should dictate to sailing clubs throughout the UK over their adoption, though they would be subject to protest by competing sailors in the same way that any non-compliant gear currently is.

Please note, the UKLA is not party to the discussions between ILCA and LPE, does not possess any privileged information and considers itself a neutral party. This advisory statement is solely to ensure sailors wishing to compete in UKLA events understand the Laser 'Club Edition' is marketed as a training boat and not as a racing boat.
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
#65
The statement below has been on the home page of laser.org.uk for several days.

Training boats

Laser Performance has introduced the Laser 'Club Edition', described as a training boat which does not bear the World Sailing Building Plaque or a Sail Button. This is fine as a training boat but we feel it is important to clarify that these boats are not Class legal based on the Fundamental Rule within the Laser Class Rules. These boats will be ineligible to compete in any UKLA sanctioned events, broadly speaking but not exclusively, those advertised on the UKLA website. Whilst the UKLA would like all Laser racing to be conducted strictly in accordance with the Class Rules, it does not consider it should dictate to sailing clubs throughout the UK over their adoption, though they would be subject to protest by competing sailors in the same way that any non-compliant gear currently is.

Please note, the UKLA is not party to the discussions between ILCA and LPE, does not possess any privileged information and considers itself a neutral party. This advisory statement is solely to ensure sailors wishing to compete in UKLA events understand the Laser 'Club Edition' is marketed as a training boat and not as a racing boat.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Who the hell is gonna buy a "training laser"?
 

thieuster

Active Member
#66
No one will buy that, but what can you do when you have boats lined up waiting for a WS plaque that will never be issued? In the past, LPE told WS that they were planning to build xxx number of boats and WS would send those plaques in advance. About 400 - 500 numbers in advance. Last Summer LPE talked about 216xxx. A number only recently sold.

Menno
 

torrid

Just sailing
#67
Given the general acceptance of aftermarket parts, I bet a large number of sailors would be willing to buy a "club Laser" if it came at a significant discount.
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#69
Given the general acceptance of aftermarket parts, I bet a large number of sailors would be willing to buy a "club Laser" if it came at a significant discount.
Unfortunately so. It also will attract those that hope that they will be permitted at all regattas eventually.
 

thieuster

Active Member
#70
Dutch dealer SailCenter has added 'official class legal boat' to the selling point list and '2 - 3 day delivery time' and 'in stock'.

Menno
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#71
Dutch dealer SailCenter has added 'official class legal boat' to the selling point list
Good. Hopefully other dealers follow suit and stay away from the "training" hulls.

Of course it remains to be seen how the dealer network changes in the near future. I would expect most to prefer to keep selling legal Laser/ILCA equipment regardless of the builder(s).

_
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#72
None of the "training equipment" should ever have been something for the dealers to avoid, there should never have been a market for it. It was always up to the clubs to say, "If you want to compete in the Laser Division, you must be sailing a legal boat and as members of the laser class in those clubs demanding the clubs to enforce it. If you want to sail with training equipment, go find a club with an open division."

We've pretty much brought on this whole LP saga on ourselves by not demanding our clubs support official boats and equipment only, by not demanding the ILCA, via our district representatives demand value for money from the builders and for us in turn to support our dealers and builders by purchasing from them, with the counter flow of the builders and dealers supporting the class events and even the clubs.
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#73
Not sure how the specifications of the boats compare but it seems to be 23% discount for the boat without the plaque.
Thanks for posting that tidbit.
It appears that the Club version of our beloved Laser can be had for 4250 pounds in the UK and the 'legal' Race one for 5500. I wonder how many 'legal' ones LP still has. Or maybe I should ask how many ILCA stickers do they still have?
 

thieuster

Active Member
#74
■ The 2024 Olympic is in Paris, France – an LP territory and LP can be the only authorized supplier of Laser boats at such event./QUOTE]
From LPE's statement a few weeks back. But not discussed here. Am I too negative when I think that this can/will influence the choice between Laser and the other contenders for a new dinghy?
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#75
The 2024 Olympic is in Paris, France – an LP territory and LP can be the only authorized supplier of Laser boats at such event.
Am I too negative when I think that this can/will influence the choice between Laser and the other contenders for a new dinghy?
I don't see it affecting that one way or the other. It rather shows again how LP views the world: their 90 % share is like a fortress, inside the walls of which no one else shall enter. It's a political statement, and purely technically I'd say it's false: the Olympics (or any other regatta for that matter) isn't about selling new boats, which is what the trademark primarily is for. The boats can come from anywhere. And if their magic name or logo aren't even shown or mentioned in anything directly connected with the event in the first place, there's nothing that the trademark holder could be opposed to.

_
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
#76
Unfortunately so. It also will attract those that hope that they will be permitted at all regattas eventually.
Why would you buy a brand new "practice" boat when you can pick up a used class legal boat for half the price of the "practice" boat?
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#78
So much for the ARC rig I guess right?
Yeah. LP will probably try to sell the already existing rigs at some price, but it obviously won't be advertised nearly as much as was intended only a month ago.

The whole thing was pretty much doomed to begin with, a desperate attempt to look as relevant and cutting-edge as Bethwaite/PSA/ILCA.

_
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#79
Why would you buy a brand new "practice" boat when you can pick up a used class legal boat for half the price of the "practice" boat?
Not everyone goes to regattas, they only sail club races. Further, over here there are a heap of non class sanction events where they could potentially be used. Unless we tell our clubs we don't want them or the other "training" equipment at our club, it will creep as being acceptable.
 

thieuster

Active Member
#80
From LPE's Facebook page on May 7th

LaserPerformance has always been proud of the quality and performance of its iconic Laser boats, which are sought out by Laser sailors around the world. Laser has invited, and continues to invite, ILCA and World Sailing to together inspect our UK manufacturing facilities in Banbury to confirm that we continue to conform to the standards established by the Laser Construction Manual. The issue is not about compliance by LP rather it is about ILCA wanting to opt out of its decades long license granted by LP.
 
Top