Can you guys chip in with what you consider with a competitive weight for a master sailor, 5"10?
By competitive i mean able to win District Level events at least.
It would depend on how good your district is. If the winners in your masters divisions are also capable of winning open cubes, you would have no leeway in regard to weight and would not be able to be over or under weight by any significant degree.
Full rig weights would be between these ranges:
78kg if you are very strong and are able to hike all the way out for extended periods but that is the absolute minimum to be quick in all conditions and you would not want a heavy regatta as similarly skilled sailors who weigh in the low to mid 80kg's will beat you upwind. The advantage downwind is not enough to equalise the difference.
80-84kg being ideal for all conditions.
85kg is the upper range to remain competitive with the top group in light conditions. You could maybe get away with as much as 90kg but not if you are racing sailors who are ranked in lets say the top 100 on ISAF.
Basically you can be quick between these weight ranges in most conditions but skill and fitness will the main determinants of success.
It is my opinion that for most people who are around midfleet at district level weight is not as big a determinant of their finishing position as they may think it is.
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Now some information that maybe useful or may not...
I have tested out how different weight can affect you by taking out training and for 2 races at my club, 10kg of lead taped and tied in to the rear cockpit of an older boat I occasionally sail. Not a huge number of tests but enough for me to see the results in some conditions.
At the time I weighed 87kg (too heavy..) so plus 10kg my total on board weight was 97kg.
The 2 races I did my average finishing position did not change from previous weeks but one very good GM at our club was able to easily match my downwind speed and I had to look for every bit of pressure and all the sets of waves I could find to maintain the gap. That was in conditions where you weren't planing but could surf some waves.
Upwind the difference was minimal and it was actually possible to forget you had the extra weight in your boat.
The very first time I put this extra weight in, I was out sailing with a mate and once out into the main harbour I saw a good fleet of lasers sailing so went to join them. Very tempted to toss the weight over the side once I saw who was out training as I was in my old boat, with lead in back of cockpit and my oldest sail. Talk about giving yourself every disadvantage but a good fleet of lasers sailing is hard to resist.
I thought this would be a great test of weight differences so joined in.
Guys training were Tom Slingsby, Tom Burton, Mike Leigh, Christoph Bottoni, James Burman, Ash Brunning and a few others. So pretty reasonable test of what extra weight will do to your boat speed against some of the fastest laser sailors in the world.
Did about 4 windward leewards from rabbit starts in 10-15 knots and choppy conditions.
Upwind my speed was virtually no different than usual (self assessed when in a 2 boat situation or off the start) and I was able to round never worse than the middle of the group with the exception of one upwind where I went out to the right with Christoph and couldn't get back over. 2 races I was in top 3 to top mark.
Downwind I was clearly off the pace and slower than I normally sail but was still within an average of 15 seconds from the back of the group by the bottom mark.
Upwind in a hiking breeze the extra weight seems to matter very little and if you had the extra weight up on the side of the boat rather than to the center you may actually be advantaged with all the extra righting moment.
Downwind you are at a small disadvantage in 10-15 knots.
Keep in mind that if you are midfleet at a club or district event being heavy may preclude you from winning if you were racing world class sailors but against average competitors you could, if skilled enough, be at the front of the fleet even weighing in the 90kg+ range.
It would be my opinion that at whatever height you are, if you are 80-84kg you can cross that off as an excuse for not winning when racing against the fastest laser sailors you can find.
The further down the fleet you go the less weight sensitive sailing a laser becomes. Saying that I would put an upper weight of around low 90kg's for average weekend sailors wanting to do well.
it also has alot to do with your fitness, if you are physically fit then you will be able to work harder for longer, at 5'10"a healthy weight range is around 160-180lbs, Paul Goodison the top laser sailor in the world is around 175lbs and 5'11", for masters I would guess most of the top guys are around 170-190lbs.
so what would be the weight to race in San Francisco in august?
so what would be the weight to race in San Francisco in august?
don't you guys take your racing seriously?
"You don't need to be a particular weight for a venue" ??? So you wouldn't bother to put on some good weight (not lard) even if you know it'd be 15-20 most of the time with some nasty chop?
"I think in any case, strength is more important than weight" - what help would be of your strength if you weight in at let's say 160? you won't be able to put your bow down upwind whatever you do.
any serious answers pls?
of course to be in a decent shape is a must, but do you think 190 would be enough for San Fran? I always sailed at 180 so have no idea how much extra lbs affect upwind/downwind. I thought a safe bet for August would be 195-200: you'd be able to put the bow down more upwind, and the boat shouldn't be too sticky downwind. Or am I way off here?
of course to be in a decent shape is a must, but do you think 190 would be enough for San Fran?
Morning races might be light.
E
don't you guys take your racing seriously?
"You don't need to be a particular weight for a venue" ??? So you wouldn't bother to put on some good weight (not lard) even if you know it'd be 15-20 most of the time with some nasty chop?
"I think in any case, strength is more important than weight" - what help would be of your strength if you weight in at let's say 160? you won't be able to put your bow down upwind whatever you do.
any serious answers pls?
I get beaten by guys that are lighter than me when its howling and guys that are heavier than me when its a drifter - ability, technique and fitness have a lot more impact on results than your weight alone.
Very interesting thread in general but I'm particularly interested in the "ability and technique" reference. As I weigh around 100kg+ (or ++ sometimes), I would be really interested in the techniques people are using to succeed in spite being well over the ideal.
Weight placement, control settings, trim, footing versus pointing - all these are well documented for the "average" sailor - but would appreciate hearing from anyone who can point out some techniques that work well for heavyweights ...
Thanks,
Rich
Very interesting thread in general but I'm particularly interested in the "ability and technique" reference. As I weigh around 100kg+ (or ++ sometimes), I would be really interested in the techniques people are using to succeed in spite being well over the ideal.
Weight placement, control settings, trim, footing versus pointing - all these are well documented for the "average" sailor - but would appreciate hearing from anyone who can point out some techniques that work well for heavyweights ...
Thanks,
Rich
At 110kgs I find this a very interesting thread and the comments about working hard down wind are so very true. In any wind where we are going on and off the plane I'm very slow downwind, once it is light enough that no-one is planing I'm OK and again if everyone is planing I'm not too badly disadvantaged downwind. In real light winds I've a very good success rate and on very windy days better, but the in betweens are hard work.
I so much more ground is lost with incorrect decisions on the course than is lost by weight, But it does afford me fewer mistakes than the light weights.
At 110kgs I find this a very interesting thread and the comments about working hard down wind are so very true. In any wind where we are going on and off the plane I'm very slow downwind, once it is light enough that no-one is planing I'm OK and again if everyone is planing I'm not too badly disadvantaged downwind. In real light winds I've a very good success rate and on very windy days better, but the in betweens are hard work.
I so much more ground is lost with incorrect decisions on the course than is lost by weight, But it does afford me fewer mistakes than the light weights.
Light wind...as you wrote above...in the super light stuff, pure sailing ability is all that matters and since every ounce of an old fart sailor is pure sailor...the biggest guy wins.
Bring it on runts!!!
At the recent Australian Masters Championship the first and second Apprentices were 90kg and 96kg while the first Master was 81kg - quite a range. I think it goes to show that at the Masters level weight isn't a huge deal. if you sail well and are fit enough to hike you can get results at any weight within reason.
Wind varied over the regatta, but was between 10 and 20 knots, so almost always a hiking breeze.
Having said that, if I was going to the worlds in SF I'd be aiming to be a hiking fit 85-86kg.
I would agree that as long as you are in ball park weight region, you should be focusing more on the technical and tactical aspects for your next area of improvement.
For primarily Master competition (Standard Rig) I would say between 80 - 88kg is very acceptable and don't worry about the 'expected' conditions of the venue - just be good enough technically do sail competitively in all wind and wave conditions.
I have seen many young and extremely fit sailors still perform poorly in wind and waves because of poor technique so don't expect gaining or losing a few pounds (kg's) to make much difference to your speed.
Will see you all in SF - at 87kg if you want to know!
Australia used to have it, Cruisers over 90kg and Featherweights under 65kg. The weight divisions began to die out with the introduction of the radials.Weight classes in Laser sailing would be interesting.