Competitive Weight

nikvdw

New Member
I decided to try a very crude mathmatical analysis....to confirm what we all think about weight range...

Does anyone know exactly what the boom, upper and lower sections weigh? I also need the rudder and the CB.

I am sure it is buried in the Class Book, just too lazy to search thru the thing.

Come to think of it does anyone have the all up racing weight of a current laser. The Hull is 130lb, what does the thing weigh all up?
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
The boat weight will be fixed. Just assign a weight like 175 lbs to it. The human weight will be your variable.
 

nikvdw

New Member
The boat weight will be fixed. Just assign a weight like 175 lbs to it. The human weight will be your variable.
Actually it does matter, because the all up weight of a Laser is very very low. So a 20 lb difference will be alot. On a keelboat, it is fixed, but on a laser it effects everything. The all up weight will change the ratios of sail area to displacement. As will something like hearing hiking pants (9 lbs) dry or not.
 

laserxd

Member
Now I just think you're trolling, but I'll enterain.

Say you have a big event coming up where you think it will be very windy. How much "good" weight do think you will put on in 1-2 months? Maybe one or two pounds, and that would be if you completely dedicated yourself you to weightlifting in order to get bigger and stronger. How much lean mass do you think you can put on in that time span?

How is that of any use for a seriously training sailor? It's a bit much for one event. Maybe if you have some off season goals regarding strength or size, but it's not a fast enough process to do it for individual events.

Nice of you to take the extreme regarding what I said. Use your thinker. For Laser sailing, I'd rather be 175-180 lbs and strong as a bull than 190 and weak as hell.
The lighter in shape guy can ease the sheet with lots of vang in a puff and shoot forward, then has the strength to sheet back in; the out of shape heavy guy just sits there and slips sideways never easing in the big puffs when overpowered, he doesn't use his weight to steer the boat either because he is less agile than the lighter in shape guy, the out of shape guy gets tired out after the first few races, the lighter guy works harder and wins races

Fitness is essential in laser racing
 

nikvdw

New Member
Actually it does matter, because the all up weight of a Laser is very very low. So a 20 lb difference will be alot. On a keelboat, it is fixed, but on a laser it effects everything. The all up weight will change the ratios of sail area to displacement. As will something like hearing hiking pants (9 lbs) dry or not.
Sailor*Total Displacement*Sail Area*SA/D
215 397 72 20.91
210 392 72 21.08
205 387 72 21.26
200 382 72 21.45
195 377 72 21.64
190 372 72 21.83
185 367 72 22.03
180 362 72 22.23
175 357 72 22.44
170 352 72 22.65
165 347 72 22.87
160 342 72 23.09
155 337 72 23.32
150 332 72 23.55
145 327 72 23.79
140 322 72 24.03
135 317 72 24.29

I calculated the Sail Area / Displacement Ratio for various weights.

To get total displacement(defined as the all up weight of the boat in the water with the sailor dressed) I used 15 lbs for the spars, 15 lbs for the blades, and 10 lbs for the rigging. My guess would be that hiking pants weigh 8 lbs, the rest of it 4-5 lbs, 12 total. So take your weight in your boxers. 183lbs + 12 for your clothing that is your all up weight.

195

Compare that to a 175 all up and you get a difference in SA/D of 22.44-21.64= 0.8

.8 as a percentage of 22.44 is 3.56%

a 175lb sailor has a 3.56 percent advantage downwind and in light wind over someone who is 195lbs based on SA/D, (which is a generally a oft used and good predictor of light air and downwind performance, (not so much upwind)(not a measure of fitness).

On a 1 km leg that is 35.6 meters, about 8 Laser Boat-lengths (assuming equal skill) (assuming SA/D is 100% relevant and significant)

If you double the difference in weight from 195 to 155 you get 23.31-21.64 = 7.16%

On a 1 km leg that is 71.6 meters, about 16 Laser Boat-lengths (assuming equal skill) (assuming SA/D is 100% relevant and significant)

Click on the blog below to get the background info....
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
Sailor*Total Displacement*Sail Area*SA/D
215 397 72 20.91
210 392 72 21.08
205 387 72 21.26
200 382 72 21.45
195 377 72 21.64
190 372 72 21.83
185 367 72 22.03
180 362 72 22.23
175 357 72 22.44
170 352 72 22.65
165 347 72 22.87
160 342 72 23.09
155 337 72 23.32
150 332 72 23.55
145 327 72 23.79
140 322 72 24.03
135 317 72 24.29

I calculated the Sail Area / Displacement Ratio for various weights.

To get total displacement(defined as the all up weight of the boat in the water with the sailor dressed) I used 15 lbs for the spars, 15 lbs for the blades, and 10 lbs for the rigging. My guess would be that hiking pants weigh 8 lbs, the rest of it 4-5 lbs, 12 total. So take your weight in your boxers. 183lbs + 12 for your clothing that is your all up weight.

195

Compare that to a 175 all up and you get a difference in SA/D of 22.44-21.64= 0.8

.8 as a percentage of 22.44 is 3.56%

a 175lb sailor has a 3.56 percent advantage downwind and in light wind over someone who is 195lbs based on SA/D, (which is a generally a oft used and good predictor of light air and downwind performance, (not so much upwind)(not a measure of fitness).

On a 1 km leg that is 35.6 meters, about 8 Laser Boat-lengths (assuming equal skill) (assuming SA/D is 100% relevant and significant)

If you double the difference in weight from 195 to 155 you get 23.31-21.64 = 7.16%

On a 1 km leg that is 71.6 meters, about 16 Laser Boat-lengths (assuming equal skill) (assuming SA/D is 100% relevant and significant)

Click on the blog below to get the background info....
Ok. So how does the ability of the heavier sailor to sail the boat flat upwind fit into this equation? It is a well regarded theory that in a windy venue the gains upwind by someone able to hold the boat flat can negate the downwind advantage of a lighter sailor. I prove it all the time at my club in person, not on paper.
 

nikvdw

New Member
Ok. So how does the ability of the heavier sailor to sail the boat flat upwind fit into this equation? It is a well regarded theory that in a windy venue the gains upwind by someone able to hold the boat flat can negate the downwind advantage of a lighter sailor. I prove it all the time at my club in person, not on paper.
Actually it is the other way around. A lighter, taller, physically fit person who can hike the boat well (anaerobic strength static position hold, like a wall sit) combined with the sheeting, steering and wave torqueing body movements you see in 15+ (an/aerobic fitness like nordic skiing) on guys like Clay Johnson (watch his video (claysails.com) for the race at the midwinters). Clay moves his body fore and aft and jabs the tiller to leeward to guide the boat aggressively upwind in waves.

There is a happy medium somewhere in the middle. Fitness means you can be lighter.
 

glasky

Member
See Article "




The Ideal Laser Body

by
John Dawson Edwards

originally appeared in the ILCA N.A. District 5 web site maintained by the author at http://web.archive.org/web/20031102195123/http://www.jdecm.com/laser/

Body weights and sailor heights from the 2000 Olympics published.

"Hiking Moment" is calculated by multiplying weight in Kg. by height in cm. A more accurate result would be to calculate the distance between the sailor's centre of gravity and a point about three inches below the knee, and then add that distance to the half the width of the laser, but this estimate will have to do.

The data reveals that a weight of 78-79 Kg. (171.5-174 lbs.) is an extremely competitive weight for effective boat handling on a Laser. You don't have to weigh more than this. The Hiking Moment numbers show however that, in support of popular belief, you can't be short: the medalists in the 2000 Olympics were all between 178 cm and 187 cm (5'10" to 6'2").

Amongst other things, it seems I need to be about 3 foot taller to be competitive
 

wessel

Member
In very light conditions I've noticed that the boats seem to get distributed by the weight of the skipper. You could easily just not race, weigh everyone and give out the awards starting with the lightest!
 
Two sailors, identical skill level, identical boats and identical weight, say 80kg would it be better to be a built, short 80kg or a tall lean 80kg, for somebody sailing laser full and radial.?
 

49208

Tentmaker
Laser hiking style is straight leg so:
taller=more righting leverage=better

(assuming both tall and short person have the weight distributed in the same areas, which most do)
 
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