Carbon tiller

Thread starter #1
Hi All! Europeans RDL in Athens are done, and I've got a boat after that event. Aussie 210... in very good condition. Now I have everything, including tiller and tiller extension and now I'm stuck with 1 question : is better to use carbon tiller (flat) or continue sailing with a stock one ( round one)? IMHO I prefer to get carbon one because I can make my traveller tighter than I can do it now and probably on tacks my double blocks will not stuck because of form of tiller

P.s : if somebody has carbon tiller DM me here or send email on nikagessa@gmail.com
 
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Thread starter #3
So it works better with the flat carbon tiller? I think you've answered your own question.
I haven't sail with carbon one ever, that's only my prediction and things that I've heard/seen, just wanna hear someone's opinion who sailed on both tillers and say exact the difference
 

thieuster

Active Member
#4
It doesn't make a difference when you sail. Apart from the things you summed up. Perhaps a few grams. And the carbon tiller is stiff. Still you can win regattas with an old style tiller.

Together with being lightweight, carbon is pretty strong. (I've seen a carbon upper mast after it had gone awol from a trailer @ 80 km/hr... Not even a scratch and the owner made it into the gold fleet last week in Athens with that mast - so carbon is strong!)

Anyway, a few things to note when using a carbon tiller:
  • Make sure that there's a protective s/steel 'plate' on top of the tiller to protect it from being damaged by the blocks when you tack.
  • When the rudder gudgeons are getting worn. the tiller will scrape the deck. Time to replace the gudgeons!
  • A new tiller can be hard to insert in the rudder head. Wet sanding with really fine sanding paper until it fits will do.
Brand-wise: you can pick the 'usual suspects' like Laser's own XD brand, or Rooster. Windesign makes a great tiller as well and the new kid on the block is Polish brand 'Mace'. More sympathetically priced than the others.
 
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torrid

Just sailing
#5
I haven't sail with carbon one ever, that's only my prediction and things that I've heard/seen, just wanna hear someone's opinion who sailed on both tillers and say exact the difference
My experience as a club-level racer, the weight doesn't make any difference. However the carbon tiller is very durable (had my acme for almost 20 years), and the traveler clears the flat tiller much better when tacking.
 
Thread starter #6
My experience as a club-level racer, the weight doesn't make any difference. However the carbon tiller is very durable (had my acme for almost 20 years), and the traveler clears the flat tiller much better when tacking.
Thank you so much!
 
Thread starter #7
It doesn't make a difference when you sail. Apart from the things you summed up. Perhaps a few grams. And the carbon tiller is stiff. Still you can win regattas with an old style tiller.

Together with being lightweight, carbon is pretty strong. (I've seen a carbon upper mast after it had gone awol from a trailer @ 80 km/hr... Not even a scratch and the owner made it into the gold fleet last week in Athens with that mast - so carbon is strong!)

Anyway, a few things to note when using a carbon tiller:
  • Make sure that there's a protective s/steel 'plate' on top of the tiller to protect it from being damaged by the blocks when you tack.
  • When the rudder gudgeons are getting worn. the tiller will scrape the deck. Time to replace the gudgeons!
  • A new tiller can be hard to insert in the rudder head. Wet sanding with really fine sanding paper until it fits will do.
Brand-wise: you can pick the 'usual suspects' like Laser's own XD brand, or Rooster. Windesign makes a great tiller as well and the new kid on the block is Polish brand 'Mace'. More sympathetically priced than the others.
I found that tiller (attached screenshot) but now I have 1 more question. Where's the cleat to tie the rudder rope on it?
 

Attachments

thieuster

Active Member
#8
It's at the side of the tiller, not on top as others have. I cannot say that there's a 'pro' or 'con' when it comes to where the cleat is positioned. I can't take pics of my son's tiller and extension set-up. His boat is currently on its way from Athens to Rostock (Warnemuende) for the next event starting on Thursday. The Mace tiller extension has a nice feel and a good grip as well.

Rooster's tiller extension is easily recognised by the big red knob on top of the extension. Lots of sailors appreciate that set-up. At least when I look at the number of top-sailors using the Rooster extension.
 
Thread starter #9
It's at the side of the tiller, not on top as others have. I cannot say that there's a 'pro' or 'con' when it comes to where the cleat is positioned. I can't take pics of my son's tiller and extension set-up. His boat is currently on its way from Athens to Rostock (Warnemuende) for the next event starting on Thursday. The Mace tiller extension has a nice feel and a good grip as well.

Rooster's tiller extension is easily recognised by the big red knob on top of the extension. Lots of sailors appreciate that set-up. At least when I look at the number of top-sailors using the Rooster extension.
Alright Sir, when his boat will arrive back can you please take a picture of this tiller and send it here on my mail?(nikagessa@gmail.com) Just wanna see real picture of it.
Just in that picture I haven't seen that cleat, and didn't get the position of it on tiller, so probably real picture will explain everything better than internet's one
 

thieuster

Active Member
#10
This is a quicker way. Sadly, SailCenter is now the Dutch dealer for this brand, meaning that prices are up! Good thing is that there's a pic of the tiller on SailCenter's website. If there's no dealer for them in Greece you can buy it directly from them.

A quick screenshot from SailCenter's website:

You can see the cleat on the side of the tiller.

Schermafbeelding 2019-07-08 om 23.15.40.png

And then I came across this. A titanium tiller!! Wow!

NegriNautica Ti. tiller
 
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Thread starter #11
This is a quicker way. Sadly, SailCenter is now the Dutch dealer for this brand, meaning that prices are up! Good thing is that there's a pic of the tiller on SailCenter's website. If there's no dealer for them in Greece you can buy it directly from them.

A quick screenshot from SailCenter's website:

You can see the cleat on the side of the tiller.

View attachment 32884

And then I came across this. A titanium tiller!! Wow!

NegriNautica Ti. tiller
Oww, thank you so much! Now see this!
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#13
Just took a picture of the cleat on my tiller (Windesign by Optiparts). The cleat 'sits' IMG_1021.JPG about 45 degrees from the top of the tiller
If 'your' tiller comes without a cleat, it's easy to add one. Just two screws.
 

thieuster

Active Member
#15
I stumbled upon that tiller only last night. And, tbh, I haven't seen one on any boat. I suppose it is class-legal and all. Perhaps a nice item to test some day!
I am no chemist, so I had to look this one up: Ti is very corrosion resistant when it's in contact with salt water. No problems here.

Menno
 
Thread starter #16
And here I got some new, other question
P.s don't want to make a new thread
So here's the question : does the breath hole take water inside of the boat or no, and if it doesn't how it works?
 

torrid

Just sailing
#17
And here I got some new, other question
P.s don't want to make a new thread
So here's the question : does the breath hole take water inside of the boat or no, and if it doesn't how it works?
Out sailing, generally no. It's not anywhere that gets a lot of water splashed on it, and even when capsized the breather hole is still above the waterline. However, there is one very sure way for water to get in the breather hole.

Don't leave the boat on a trailer, uncovered, with the tongue down for any extended period of time. If it rains, the cockpit will fill with water and leak in through the breather hole. Even with the bailer open, enough water can gather in the cockpit for this to happen.

I was at a regatta and left my boat like this for one night. One good thunderstorm was enough to fill hull up with water.
 
Thread starter #18
Thank you so much for your reply! I just got a boat, after yesterday sailing just opened the back plus and got from there something like 15-25 ml of water, and just thought that only from that hole I can get that quantity of it
P.s the wind was around 10 kn and in gust 12kn and I capsized boat 3 or 4 times (my bad, did it with very stupid way)
P90715-201821.jpg
 
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LaLi

Well-Known Member
#19
The breathing hole is 1) very small and 2) as torrid said, located at a point that is among the last to submerge no matter how the boat is oriented. The only way to get water through there is to keep the cockpit full of water for significant amounts of time (keeping the bailer closed "helps"). If you sail for hours in big waves and nosedive several times, you might get even a few deciliters in that way, and that still doesn't mean your boat "leaks". I wouldn't worry about the amount of water that you described, but of course if it gets substantially worse then it's time for a leak check.

_
 
Thread starter #20
The breathing hole is 1) very small and 2) as torrid said, located at a point that is among the last to submerge no matter how the boat is oriented. The only way to get water through there is to keep the cockpit full of water for significant amounts of time (keeping the bailer closed "helps"). If you sail for hours in big waves and nosedive several times, you might get even a few deciliters in that way, and that still doesn't mean your boat "leaks". I wouldn't worry about the amount of water that you described, but of course if it gets substantially worse then it's time for a leak check.

_
Alright sir! Thank you so much, and I was really that day sailing with 2 meter max. waves, and all the time my cockpit had a water in it, and yeah, I was nosediving few times. Anyway thanks again for your response! Have a good wind!
 
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thieuster

Active Member
#21
Just for your sake of mind: put a jar or cup under the transom when you undo the bung. Try to catch the water in the jar/cup. A few deciliters in a jar are 'normal'; the same amount of water spreading out on the ground gives you the idea that your boat has swallowed the complete sea! Spread out on the ground, the amount of water that normally goes into a jar, looks much bigger.
 
Thread starter #22
Just for your sake of mind: put a jar or cup under the transom when you undo the bung. Try to catch the water in the jar/cup. A few deciliters in a jar are 'normal'; the same amount of water spreading out on the ground gives you the idea that your boat has swallowed the complete sea! Spread out on the ground, the amount of water that normally goes into a jar, looks much bigger.
But I have maximum 30 ml, excuse me?? What deciliters? I just wanna now from where it comes in, that's the most interesting question for me at this moment
 

thieuster

Active Member
#23
First source: the brass coupling in/under the bailor. When you turn the boat over, you can remove the bailor (YouTube as a few 'how to' vids). Then you see a brass coupling like you see in home plumbing. Here's what someone wrote:

You may want to rethink this. Lasers leak at the cockpit drain all the time. Often it comes from water in the cockpit leaking into the hull. The hull and deck/cockpit are two different moldings and either one will leak at the drain since the bronze drain passes through both. The two are not bonded and they certainly aren't tabbed in the way I use the word tabbed. What they do/did was place a puddle of polyester bog roughly where they imagined that the back of the cockpit molding would approach the hull molding and put the two pieces together. Plenty of leakage opportunity from either the hull side or the cockpit side. In my case the bronze drain fitting actually was misaligned and the thing cut a small hole in the cockpit wall near the bottom of the drain depression where it couldn't easily be seen. Found it by pressurizing the hull. An air matress or inflatable boat pump will pressurize without damage if you control yourself. In the end, there is no other reliable way of finding leaks. It's not a big deal, a few steps on the bellows pump and you'll hear the leak or see the soapy bubbles. Don't use a shop vac, you'll never hear the leak and because you can't control the pressure it can damage the boat.
Second: the mast step may leak. Simple test: fill the mast step with water, flush with the deck. Leave the boat standing for a night. Return the next day and check if the level has dropped. If not, turn the boat over and let the water out.

Third: AND BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THIS!!!! block the drain plug and pressurize the hull through the transom's bung. YOU ONLY NEED A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF PRESSURE. Check the hull with soapy water: bubbles = leak. Turn the boat upside down. Re-pressurize the hull and check the gunwale where the deck is joined with the hull. Again, use soapy water and only a little pressure! A compressor's power is too much!! Be careful.
 
Thread starter #24
First source: the brass coupling in/under the bailor. When you turn the boat over, you can remove the bailor (YouTube as a few 'how to' vids). Then you see a brass coupling like you see in home plumbing. Here's what someone wrote:



Second: the mast step may leak. Simple test: fill the mast step with water, flush with the deck. Leave the boat standing for a night. Return the next day and check if the level has dropped. If not, turn the boat over and let the water out.

Third: AND BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THIS!!!! block the drain plug and pressurize the hull through the transom's bung. YOU ONLY NEED A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF PRESSURE. Check the hull with soapy water: bubbles = leak. Turn the boat upside down. Re-pressurize the hull and check the gunwale where the deck is joined with the hull. Again, use soapy water and only a little pressure! A compressor's power is too much!! Be careful.
Thank you! Will save it. As soon as I'll come back in my NC I'll check the first one, and I probably have some idea and will try it. About the second, I was checking mast step before buying that boat and it's in perfect condition, the third... I'll think about it only if the 1st one will not help me. But anyway! Thank you for advices)
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#25
Nickolas, I think you're making a big deal out of nothing. 30 millilitres? Come on, you'll get that much water (through the aforementioned breathing hole) if you even once fill the cockpit. That is NORMAL. If your bailer connection were leaking, you would get tens of times more water in. You don't, so your boat does NOT leak. Of course, it's new and beautiful and you want it to be just... perfect. You know what? It IS. No need to worry!

_
 

thieuster

Active Member
#26
30 ml is two tablespoons... I am with Lali on this one when it's only 30 ml. ('Vloeistoffen' = Dutch for 'fluids'). I'll save you the other translations...

 
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