Bending spars

S

sprayblond

Member
You go to a championship and the measurer is very meticulate about the spars being straight. After the first race with 20 knots+ you see the whole boat park jumping up and down on their top sections to straighten them. Never mind the bent lower sections in the radial fleet which cannot be straightened. Logical? What can be done to design new spars which do not get permanent bends?
 
Yes.

The top section was always under spec'd, particularly with the way the two sections join which cause a huge stress concentrator. The radial bottom section should always have been the same thickness standard bottom section, the sleeve was a mistake, if the section were the same, the sail could have been cut around the mast, instead of the other way. Note also that various regions have issues with various sections, whilst top sections do bend in Australia / NZ they don
t seem to have the same issues as you guys do. However, our radial bottom sections were so bad, that eventually the builder began sourcing them from Europe, a lot of these issues are to do with the wall thickness and not as many people think, the alloy or heat treatment that don't make a huge diffference when it comes to bend characteristics or yielding (permanent bends).
 
So what is the reason for checking? Everyone will be sailing with more or less bent spars after a windy day. 7 radial bottom sections and 3 top sections this year and still counting...
 
Not all sections bend and the one design nature of the class means that some people will be disadvantaged.

25 odd years of racing lasers and never bent a top section, except once due to a collision. Bent one full rig bottom section because of a bad batch of tube stock.
 
I have never bent a bottom section and have only bent my current top section. This is likely to be because of the amount of kicker (vang) you need to use for the 8.1 sail.

Having said that a friend of mine had a brand new boat and he bent his top section within a week and it was not even that windy.
 
How have you guys not managed to bend your top sections? Are you not using kicker??? I only ask as I have to straighen my top sections after everysail, new ones are bent almost instantly too! I've also bent 2 radial bottom sections in the last year!
 
Rumor has it that 46 bottom sections were refused during measurement at radial youth worlds.. How convenient that LP had their sales rep present.

Something NEEDS to be done.
 
But why were they rejected? For being bent or for some other reason?

I rejected far more at one worlds because the mast sleeve wasn't correctly located and the PSA and a dealer worked with us to get them correctly positioned. At the same regatta people tried to use a batch of experimental bottom sections from about 10 years earlier that had longer sleeves, these were automatically rejected. The number of bent spars were minimal, but one dealer was able to straighten many of them.
 
At last years worlds after one hours sail in 15 knots my top section failed measurement due to being bent. Lesson learnt, don't go practicing with charter kit till after measurement!

All the masts I saw fail measurement were for bend, it was charter kit so the fittings are all in the right place.
 
To some extent PSA will be happy to see me gone. Whilst the primary purchase of measurement is to make sure that all the competitors are competing with equal equipment within the constains of tolerances, I also saw it a possibility to look at the quality control of the factory, it's rare that a common issue isn't found. Whilst most measurers don't do it, I always forwarded a measurer's report to the district association, regional association, ILCA and local builder. Those reports gave a snapshot of quality control of the factory, how the class rules were being misinterpreted and any suspected delibrate cheating.
 
AlanD said:
Those reports gave a snapshot of quality control of the factory, how the class rules were being misinterpreted and any suspected delibrate cheating.
Click to expand...

Alan, how extensive would you say attempts at deliberate cheating are? I'm not asking for details about any particular person, nor a statistical analysis--just your gut feeling. Curiosity is piqued!
 
Interesting question and it depends upon what you define as cheating.

There is a huge ignorance of the class rules and many sailors just assume that what they did in another class will also be legal in a laser. In addition as you can see in this forum, many will attempt to bend the rules to gain advantage by putting a spin on the rules, in most cases the fundamental class rule will eliminate their interpretation. The class rules are pretty simple, most things are clearly defined; positions, lengths, quantities noting that "a" is singular etc are all there. What isn't permitted is banned by the fundamental rule. It's pretty much that straight forward. The ILCA office will answer your specific questions if you think you've found a loophole.

There are a significant number of people who deliberately flaunt the rules. They may or may not gain an advantage from doing so. Irrespectively they believe they don't get an advantage. For example they may run the shockcord on the outhaul system in a certain manner because it works better and even if you correct them one day, some will change back the next day hoping that you won't spot them. In most cases they aren't getting any real advantage, just not adhering to the class rules.

At the level where you expect people both competitors and coaches to be aware of the rules is where you'll see cheating knowingly to gain advantage. In the top 20 sailors worldwide (combining the men & women), you probably won’t notice any cheating. But there is a group below this where you’re more likely to see the cheats, not many of them but they are the ones wanting to become part of that elite group and are willing to do anything to make it and they may be encouraged by their coaches to attempt to cheat. Hopefully these guys don't ever make it into the very top group.

Those who have been measured by me in the past will find that I generally give the benefit of the doubt, but will attempt to carefully explain why something is illegal. I try to get thing fixed on the spot. If it can't be easily fixed but isn't giving them an advantage, I'll explain how to fix the problem and I'll let them through, so they can address it when they have the tools available (e.g. sail numbers not being quite right). Where an advantage is gained, it must be fixed, but again I'll explain how to do it and in some cases do it for them (once this involved building a new boom).

At a regatta, I won't enter an argument with a competitor during measurement. Pretty much it's my way or the highway. Just because some other measurer (or in some cases you be told that it was you) permitted it previously, doesn't mean it will be permitted this time (measurers are fallible and we don’t necessarily see everything). If someone at the end of the day wants to buy me a beer or wine and discuss something, I'm open to it, but it will take a lot of convincing to change my mind. In the past I've sat down with them and sent an email to Jean-Luc to decide upon, but until he confirms one way or the other, it's still my interpretation that rules.

You do however learn who you need to keep a close eye on and you do develop a long memory of who they are and might let the other IM know. They might get something past you at one regatta, but not the next, even if it's years later.

The truly talented don't need to cheat and you're only really having a hollow victory if you do cheat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top