Hi, I'm a heavy sailor, weigh 20lb. I know it is difficult for heavy sailer to sail laser faster than light weight sailors of 15lb or so, if skill level is same. I just want to do everything I can do, parallely reducing weight. I could catch up with light sailors in downwind. ( I'm not sure why). But in upwind I found my boat speed is rather slow in light air. My upwind set in light air (1 to 5 knots) and smooth water is, Vang : loose, outhaul loose (distance between boom cleat to sail foot : 30cm), mainsheet : distance between blocks: 30 to 40 cm, Cunningham : completely loose, Sit position : on mainsheet cleat. I will aprreciate your any advice, specially from heavy sailors.TKS
Upwind in light air for heavy weight sailor
- Thread starter manatwork
- Start date
gouvernail
Super Opinionated and Always Correct
After thirty years of getting stomped in light air I figured out how to stay out of last..
I started spending lots of time encouaging anybody bigger than me to come sail Lasers. Now that there are lost of 230, 240 and 250 pound guys in the fleet, I am having lots more fun.
Note.. fellow big guys are lots more fun at dinner time too. the skinny runts always want to eat healthy crap. Big guys love buffets.
I started spending lots of time encouaging anybody bigger than me to come sail Lasers. Now that there are lost of 230, 240 and 250 pound guys in the fleet, I am having lots more fun.
Note.. fellow big guys are lots more fun at dinner time too. the skinny runts always want to eat healthy crap. Big guys love buffets.
Merrily
Administrator
Welcome to The Laser Forum, Manatwork.
I think that you probably mean that you weigh 200 lbs and are racing against sailors who weigh 150 lbs.
I sail on a lake with small, if any, waves, and in light air upwind, I keep the sail flat, at most 10 cm from the boom. I also have a lot of vang on and a touch of cunningham. I get the sail as smooth as I can so there's nothing stopping the light air flow. There's 30 to 40 cm between the traveler blocks. There are probably people here who can say better why it works, and BTW, I'm not a big guy.
I think that you probably mean that you weigh 200 lbs and are racing against sailors who weigh 150 lbs.
I sail on a lake with small, if any, waves, and in light air upwind, I keep the sail flat, at most 10 cm from the boom. I also have a lot of vang on and a touch of cunningham. I get the sail as smooth as I can so there's nothing stopping the light air flow. There's 30 to 40 cm between the traveler blocks. There are probably people here who can say better why it works, and BTW, I'm not a big guy.
Sailorchick
Member
You need to pull the main in block to block, put the kicker on so no sag in the line and then ease the main slightly. Pull it block to block if you have enough pressure in the sail to lean against. Cunningham pretty much nothing and outhaul loose but not excessively so.
Lighter sailors will have to start depowering a lot earlier than you so ignore people telling you to put cunningham/kicker on when the wind increases slightly. Only start putting these on if you are getting overpowered.
When I was heavy (used to be 95kg in a radial) I could get upwind no problems in light airs, just downwind the lightweights used to fly past me, so whatever you are doing downwind obviously works really well.
Lighter sailors will have to start depowering a lot earlier than you so ignore people telling you to put cunningham/kicker on when the wind increases slightly. Only start putting these on if you are getting overpowered.
When I was heavy (used to be 95kg in a radial) I could get upwind no problems in light airs, just downwind the lightweights used to fly past me, so whatever you are doing downwind obviously works really well.
LASERNUT
Member
As Sailorchick said.
And defiantly don't let too much outhaul out!
And defiantly don't let too much outhaul out!
Merrily
Administrator
I'm definitely defiant when someone tries to get me to have too much outhaul out, too.
Rob B
Well-Known Member
From a VERY creadible source on this subject check out the D12 Regatta Report from David Loring that was posted today, (Fmr Sunfish World Champ and 94-96 US Laser Sailing Team member).
While going the right direction and knowing where to be with the current takes precidence I'm sure the sail set up is important too.
David weighs in the 170 range. I'm about 200 lbs and go with the loose sail settings like David.
While going the right direction and knowing where to be with the current takes precidence I'm sure the sail set up is important too.
David weighs in the 170 range. I'm about 200 lbs and go with the loose sail settings like David.
Windglider
New Member
Maintaining speed is key! let it move, never stall.
1) Try to get speed and stay focused on speed
2) very carefully try to sail closer to the wind in a gust and go to leeward in a lull so you never loose speed!
3) You will not be able to sail as close to the wind as lighter sailor, but you will hold on to your speed longer.
Windglider (95Kg)
1) Try to get speed and stay focused on speed
2) very carefully try to sail closer to the wind in a gust and go to leeward in a lull so you never loose speed!
3) You will not be able to sail as close to the wind as lighter sailor, but you will hold on to your speed longer.
Windglider (95Kg)
Tks all who gave me advices. I joined in my club regatta today and the condition was quite calm. ( wind 0.5 to 2kts, oscilating, wave height 10cm) My body weight ( measured this morning ) was 92kg, my today's rig set in upwind was, outhaul : loose (distance from boom to sail foot : 25cm), mainsheet BtB distance : 10 to 20 cm, vang : little tight, cunningham : loose, sitting position : front of centerboad case. That position was my first trial. Result was OK. Speed itself is almost same as light sailors like 60kg to 70kg. ( but mobility is less than sitting in cockpit ) I tried to keep speed even though losing some angles. I concentrated telltales next to top batten ( as top one is apt to fly more than others ) I found I need longer tiller extension like 120cm. My one was too short for handling over centerboad. I couldn't do this in reach. Has anyone tried sitting that position ? Don't you think the tiller work difficult ? Let me hear your opinion.
YachtKnotSail
New Member
My Dad was 250lb, and called himself the "Sumo Express". Once he became practiced and disciplined at sitting forward, he could keep up in light air, at least not lose. Its okay to have 2 tiller extension lengths, 1 for light (longer) and 1 for heavy. Also, spend a lot of time stretching your hamstrings and gluteous maximus, plus other Butt muscles, otherwise you WILL blow a disk in your back, like my Dad did. Good luck to the Sumo's!!!
Thanks YachtKnotSail and your father. It's good to know anyone is doing the same as my trial and it is good result. I could not conclude that it is better result than sitting in the cockpit, from my very short laser experience (2months). I will buy long tiller extension like 125cm soon, as an option for light air condition race.
YachtKnotSail
New Member
Tacking is the hardest part. There are many different methods, two extremes are
1. prior to the tack, work back to a position with your legs in the cockpit, then as you start the tack you actually "kick" the boat forward by pushing your feet against the front of the cockpit and still sit on WINDWARD side, at this point you are about 1/2 to all the way in the back of the boat, laying back, (you look up and see the boom)the boat rolls easily because you are heavy, and as you move to windward, you cross diagonally forward to front of cockpit (the hard part) so that when you flatten the boat, your body is in line with Centerboard. Dont know if explained this well.
2. just steer slowly through the tack maintaining as much forward momentum as possible, dont worry about rolling, just cheat and give a couple of gentile rocks once your in position after the tack to get yourself up to speed again.
I bet Fred has the best answer.
1. prior to the tack, work back to a position with your legs in the cockpit, then as you start the tack you actually "kick" the boat forward by pushing your feet against the front of the cockpit and still sit on WINDWARD side, at this point you are about 1/2 to all the way in the back of the boat, laying back, (you look up and see the boom)the boat rolls easily because you are heavy, and as you move to windward, you cross diagonally forward to front of cockpit (the hard part) so that when you flatten the boat, your body is in line with Centerboard. Dont know if explained this well.
2. just steer slowly through the tack maintaining as much forward momentum as possible, dont worry about rolling, just cheat and give a couple of gentile rocks once your in position after the tack to get yourself up to speed again.
I bet Fred has the best answer.
Rob B
Well-Known Member
You have 2 rule 42 voilations in here: 1) The forward push with your foot against the forward end of the cockpit and 2) Rocking the boat after you complete the roll tack.
If you roll tack correctly, (1 roll) you come out of the tack with the same speed as you had when you went into it.
Do not steer too slow through the tack as it will be difficult to get the boat through the wind fast enough for an effective roll. The reason you roll tack is so you do not lose speed while tacking.
YachtKnotSail
New Member
Only the FAST yachtsmen get a DSQ for breaking 42.
Sailorchick
Member
You'd get yellow flagged for those actions at any UK event with on water jury. You also would soon get spoken to at an open for such blatant rule 42 breaking.
I also wouldn't say rolling after the tack is gonna be anywhere near as fast and efficient as a good roll tack.
I also wouldn't say rolling after the tack is gonna be anywhere near as fast and efficient as a good roll tack.
You do have violations but I don't think that you will get caught for the forward push as it would be pretty hard to spot from the official boat, rocking would look pretty obvious if you did it too often though.
Have to add my 2c worth here.
I weigh 220, and if I have a best condition, its in the light stuff.
Once upon a time I used to race BMX. If you've ever seen the start of a BMX race you'll know whats coming next.
When a BMX racer starts, he throws all his weight forward before the gate drops. he's doing 20mph while his bike is still staying still. when the gate drops, his light bike gets dragged underneath him, until its in a position where he can pedal it. Momentum is key here. (As a side issue, if the gate is late, or he goes too early, he faceplants on the track and his bike goes flying - great to watch!)
Its the same thing when tacking - by moving myself backwards, the boat is pushed forwards, and vice-versa.
In light winds, and this is one thing most mid-fleet sailors forget, the perfect solution is to point straight to the mark. We all know this wont work in practise, as the boat goes nowhere with its sail flapping. The best we can do is get up to full speed, and do a perfect roll tack, right? Wrong. In flat water with no wind, the boat will coast along for ages, so...
Heavy sailors naturally have momentum on our side. get up to speed, and do HALF a roll tack. Use your momentum to keep moving, straight toward the mark. After a few seconds, when the speed starts to drop, turn onto the new course, and roll the boat back upright.
you can actually be quite aggressive with this roll, to the point where, if you stayed sitting level with the cockpit, you'd be breaking rule 42. As the speed builds, push yourself forwards, using your own momentum to effectively slow the boat down to legal speed.
At the end of the tack, you should be sat right forward, with the boat flat, and sheeted in at full speed.
You might not have gone forwards quite as far as the guy who did a quick tack, but you may have pulled 10 meters directly upwind of them, which is where you're trying to go!
If there's wind, the only real difference is not to stop at the halfway point, because you'll just get blown backwards.
Hard to explain, easy to demonstrate!
I weigh 220, and if I have a best condition, its in the light stuff.
Once upon a time I used to race BMX. If you've ever seen the start of a BMX race you'll know whats coming next.
When a BMX racer starts, he throws all his weight forward before the gate drops. he's doing 20mph while his bike is still staying still. when the gate drops, his light bike gets dragged underneath him, until its in a position where he can pedal it. Momentum is key here. (As a side issue, if the gate is late, or he goes too early, he faceplants on the track and his bike goes flying - great to watch!)
Its the same thing when tacking - by moving myself backwards, the boat is pushed forwards, and vice-versa.
In light winds, and this is one thing most mid-fleet sailors forget, the perfect solution is to point straight to the mark. We all know this wont work in practise, as the boat goes nowhere with its sail flapping. The best we can do is get up to full speed, and do a perfect roll tack, right? Wrong. In flat water with no wind, the boat will coast along for ages, so...
Heavy sailors naturally have momentum on our side. get up to speed, and do HALF a roll tack. Use your momentum to keep moving, straight toward the mark. After a few seconds, when the speed starts to drop, turn onto the new course, and roll the boat back upright.
you can actually be quite aggressive with this roll, to the point where, if you stayed sitting level with the cockpit, you'd be breaking rule 42. As the speed builds, push yourself forwards, using your own momentum to effectively slow the boat down to legal speed.
At the end of the tack, you should be sat right forward, with the boat flat, and sheeted in at full speed.
You might not have gone forwards quite as far as the guy who did a quick tack, but you may have pulled 10 meters directly upwind of them, which is where you're trying to go!
If there's wind, the only real difference is not to stop at the halfway point, because you'll just get blown backwards.
Hard to explain, easy to demonstrate!
Merrily
Administrator
One thing I think Fred would do--ream you for saying "just cheat."