What's new

Thoughts on Bailer replacement

Cdubb

New Member
Hi all,

My on going craigslist project is moving forward, now I need to replace the bailer. I picked up a full kit plastic one today and I just wanted some input on it. I think I understand how to get the old metal one off but what I am wondering is when putting the new one on is there any alterations that need to be made? Also is silicone recommend for a improved seal on the hull and deck? Lastly how do the plastic ones hold up? Anyone have any comments on them? Thanks again for all the help so far.

Regards
 

beldar boathead

Well-Known Member
As long as you don't drop the boat onto concrete and score a direct hit on the plastic bailer it is fine. They are a huge improvement over the metal ones. Don't use the o-ring with the plastic bailer. Just run silicone around the edge of the bailer, stick it to the hull, and tighten the "nut" from the inside without using silicone on the inside or on the threads.
 

Cdubb

New Member
O-rings ok on the ball assembly? Just run a bead around the edge of the bailer housing in the bottom of the boat?
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
"...how do the plastic ones hold up...?" Anyone have any comments on them? Thanks again for all the help so far. Regards
Of my three [second-hand] Sunfish, none has stood the test of time. If they weren't already leaking, they have since broken the outer shell that makes them draw water out while sailing. The skipper (and passengers) must be very sensitive to its location—especially when stepping into the Sunfish on lawn, narrow ramp or dock. You'll notice the O-ring design leaves a gap between hull and bailer body. I suspect the original O-ring design was to permit some compliance against shocks and bumps, as the rubber acts like a "stand-off", while still working as an effective drain.

P6010321.JPG

In restoring old cars, I deal with corrosion all the time: Although I've never tried to resuscitate the Sunfish metal (DePersia) bailer, I'd try "PB Blaster" (and a tap with a hammer) several times over a week's time.

I refuse to buy another one of these $45 plastic money-makers (or "internals kits"), and use a $5 automotive expanding rubber "freeze plug" instead. Quoted from a previous thread:

"...A $5 "freeze plug" from an automobile supply store can replace the entire thing, and seal any leaks should the inner bailer plug or bailer body be cracked or otherwise compromised. The diameter would be 1¼", still drains rainwater, is easy to install and reduces drag. :cool: I'd suggest fitting it with a wing nut, and installing the smaller washer to the outside..."
 

beldar boathead

Well-Known Member
O-rings ok on the ball assembly? Just run a bead around the edge of the bailer housing in the bottom of the boat?
Use the o ring in the ball assembly. Also, LVW is correct if you have a 150 lb person stand on the bailer it will probably crack, so please avoid doing that!
 

Rudder

New Member
The plastic bailers as beldar said are a huge improvement and they are durable. When you are out sailing in strong winds and big waves that are filling the cockpit it is nice to have a bailer that works at getting rid of the water. The old metal ones were ok but not great. If there is any wind I usually sail with my plastic bailer open all the time as it seals so well.
 

sailcraftri

Well-Known Member
Class legal racing requires the outer o-ring to be used. Recreation sailing who cares. But I have had no issues using the o-ring, no leaks.
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
The plastic bailers as beldar said are a huge improvement and they are durable. When you are out sailing in strong winds and big waves that are filling the cockpit it is nice to have a bailer that works at getting rid of the water. The old metal ones were ok but not great. If there is any wind I usually sail with my plastic bailer open all the time as it seals so well.
When looking at a used Sunfish to buy, a bailer with cracks started should be noted. (Straight-out, there's $45 to be saved on the
purchase :cool: ).

When a Sunfish is ashore on a wood or other firm surface, should someone fall on the rear deck—or merely step inside—add their weight to a Sunfish's weight and see what happens to the bailer! :confused:

Lately, I carry this well-used plastic bailer in my truck, searching for a solution to breakage and cracking...'will report on any ideas. One "working-theory" is to bond one or two aluminum angles longitudinally to the hull—acting as a protective skeg.



Class legal racing requires the outer o-ring to be used. Recreation sailing who cares. But I have had no issues using the o-ring, no leaks.
Good observation. Would class legal racing rules specifically permit both outer o-ring and sealing of the edges?
 
Class legal racing requires the outer o-ring to be used. Recreation sailing who cares. But I have had no issues using the o-ring, no leaks.
I've been racing Sunfish since they were made of wood, and have sailed in numerous North American championships even in this decade despite my advanced years. I can assure you that class legal racing does not require the O ring to be used. For reasons I cannot figure out, perhaps as my brain has lost ago faded, the o-ring is required at the Worlds, at least when new boats are provided by the organizers. My aging brain thinks that may be because they don't want silicone used on the new boats, which are resold after the event.

I think perhaps in Will White's seminal tome on the Sunfish, the Sunfish Bible, he suggests using the oring inside the cockpit so no one can claim that you are not using it. But I have had my boat measured many times without the oring and think Will was over thinking.

BTW When you get to be my age you will be happy to know McLube works great on walker wheels.

TUM
 

Melnic

New Member
I purchased this from sunfish direct to repair my '69 sunfish:
Sunfish, Sunfish Bailer Housing w/Ball, 91029 SUN-91029 $15.00
I just reused the plastic flange nut and rubber stopper and I was Good to Go

I have no idea why adding the plastic flange nut and rubber stopper increases it to $40-$45

I deal with outdoor plastics in my job. Not an expert but I can tell you that many things that are sold outdoors, don't have the proper plastic chemistry to deal with the sun. Between UV rays and temperature fluctuations, that plays havoc on many plastics. Much of the Automotive industry has figured things out. not so sure how well the boating industry figured things out in the 70's. It could be that new stuff is better than 15 year old stuff but I can tell you, they did not design it to last 20 years.
My opinion is if your sunfish bailer is not out in the sun and you cover it, your plastic parts will last longer. But as I pointed out, its $15 for the part that I had to replace. I'm not going to make an effort to cover mine. I don't ever need to put onto pavement. mostly loose smooth rocks.
 

Webfoot1

Active Member
Call me out of the loop but I think plastic sucks when it comes to the test of time. I generally collects 1950,s water stuff like outboards and such and enjoy the pre-plastic age for how long things would last. I never miss snagging a metal bailer or metal rudder Sunfish bracket on e-bay although the De-Persa bailer caps go for a crazy price. Now if someone with a home deposition machine could turn out some ABS bailer cap replacements I would not mind a bit!
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
I purchased this from sunfish direct to repair my '69 sunfish:
Sunfish, Sunfish Bailer Housing w/Ball, 91029 SUN-91029 $15.00...I just reused the plastic flange nut and rubber stopper and I was Good to Go
Thanks for the tip. :) That's a much more reasonable approach to the problem. 'Guess I'll buy a few, and afix a metal skeg—alongside.

Now if someone with a home deposition machine could turn out some ABS bailer cap replacements I would not mind a bit!
A "home deposition machine" is a "3-D Printer"? :confused:

I have no idea why adding the plastic flange nut and rubber stopper increases it to $40-$45
Sounds like a job for a "3-D Printer"! You could pump 'em out—become a millionaire! :)
 

mixmkr

Well-Known Member
Why has no one installed a regular Anderson bailer, albeit a tad expensive, but actually work? If you're not racing, might be the item of choice over the plastic stuff. untitled.png
 

Webfoot1

Active Member
I ordered a metal bailer plug and they sent me this stupid gun instead! Anyway went the the hardware to get
a 3/4 pvc cap. No go, De-Persia uses some odd size. Look like a rubber plug is called for. Some guy has been
selling a dozen new caps on E-Bay. If I thought they were worth blowing $50 bucks for I'd get one. All you 3-D
printer guys, you can make $30 a cap although I'd probably only pay $25 for one.
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
Although the original Sunfish bailers look better by comparison, DePersia once made plastic bailers as seen at eBay—$20/Complete/NOS—is available next week :): VINTAGE BOAT De Persia SCUPPER BAILER Self Bailing drain water deck valve U.S.A.

I'm wondering if it would be possible to use the present DePersia metal bailer bottom to cast a new plug using West® epoxy? Mix shredded fiberglass strands into a mix with their various beads and powders? Cast a handle into it at the same time? I'll email my buddy who uses West® epoxy all the time. Spray PAM® is suggested as a release agent, but I'd ask the pros first.

I ordered a metal bailer plug and they sent me this stupid gun instead! Anyway went the hardware to get a 3/4 pvc cap. No go, De-Persia uses some odd size. Look like a rubber plug is called for. Some guy has been selling a dozen new caps on E-Bay. If I thought they were worth blowing $50 bucks for I'd get one. All you 3-D printer guys, you can make $30 a cap although I'd probably only pay $25 for one.
Use the gun to install a new Anderson bailer. :D
 

mixmkr

Well-Known Member
Fwiw i have one of tbe old Depersia bailers and I personally don't think it works all that great. Its in great condition but you have to be really moving for it to even start to work
 

Webfoot1

Active Member
Looking for the old style brass DePersia type. You would have to have a actual cap/bailer unit in hand to try
to make a replica cap ABS cap. Threads would be part that could kill the project as the printer probably will
not have enough resolution to make the threads fine/sharp enough.
 

Cdubb

New Member
This is what I have, I am having second thoughts on replacing it, at least right now. What am I lacking? I think just the plug itself
 

Attachments

L&VW

Well-Known Member
Fwiw i have one of tbe old Depersia bailers and I personally don't think it works all that great. Its in great condition but you have to be really moving for it to even start to work
I liked the concept of a metal bailer (that is hard to break). Also didn't know they're not very efficient. :oops: So what advice would you give the above reply?



If you've got this "picture" above, why not use a cork—attached with a string—so it doesn't get lost? The bailing process should be much improved, plus the outside part isn't going to break.
 
Last edited:

Charles Howard

Active Member
I think you are over thinking this. The plastic bailer have been around since the 70's and my boat still has the original one. They are strong. Certainly if abused, it will break but it is a low cost part and easy to replace. As someone said before they work well and I also sail with mine open all the time the boat is moving. If the boat is sitting, you just put the plug in. It works very well. I have had cockpits full of water from waves and flipping and it will drain it all. Replace the broken metal one with a plastic one that will work and just sail.
 

Al Courtines

New Member
The plastic ones are prone to breakage. I'd take my metal one back any day! I think the white plastic balls are a different size.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EdT

beldar boathead

Well-Known Member
What are you guys doing to break these bailers? I've had a plastic bailer for decades , my boats get heavy use, and have never broken one. In salt water environs, the plastic one is a no-brainer due to no corrosion problems. The metal bailer shown in the pic above looks so corroded a drain plug will never fit into it. Time for plastic!
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
What are you guys doing to break these bailers? I've had a plastic bailer for decades , my boats get heavy use, and have never broken one. In salt water environs, the plastic one is a no-brainer due to no corrosion problems. The metal bailer shown in the pic above looks so corroded a drain plug will never fit into it. Time for plastic!
For starters, plastic deteriorates over time: one reason you don't see Chevy Corvettes with perfect-mirror paint jobs.

Sunshine, particularly in the South, is intense. Most outdoor Sunfish are stored with the bailer fully exposed to sunlight.
UV kills plastic. A coat of paint would've protected the plastic bailer (some), but none of my three Sunfish are newer than 1978. :confused:

Anti-corrosive agents have come a long way since 1978.

I'll take metal, when it's available. :)
 

eastchopsailor

New Member
Hi all,

My on going craigslist project is moving forward, now I need to replace the bailer. I picked up a full kit plastic one today and I just wanted some input on it. I think I understand how to get the old metal one off but what I am wondering is when putting the new one on is there any alterations that need to be made? Also is silicone recommend for a improved seal on the hull and deck? Lastly how do the plastic ones hold up? Anyone have any comments on them? Thanks again for all the help so far.

Regards
How did you get the old Depersia bailer out? I'm trying to replace mine now and I'd love a good trick and proper tool ideas please.
 

cantgrowup

New Member
I have a question about the O-ring on my 1976 plastic bailer. When trying to reinstall my bailer with a new o-ring, the bailer is not being drawn up flat against the hull bottom... it's tilted (touching the nose against the hull, but there is a gap of 1/4" or so between trailing edge and hull. Also, the new plug is trying to squirm its way out from under the cap as I tighten. Is this normal until the o-ring flattens out some?

Leaving out the o-ring would seem to let water in undeterred.
 
Last edited:

eastchopsailor

New Member
I just installed a new plastic bailer yesterday and after tightening the nut it rests about 1/8 " evenly around from the hull. I don't think it should be tilted at all and maybe you need to try again and make sure clean connection. As for the plug do you mean just the cork that plugs the hole on the inside of the cockpit? that should stay in but i'm new to this style so will soon find out. good luck.
 

signal charlie

Well-Known Member
Staff member
This is what I have, I am having second thoughts on replacing it, at least right now. What am I lacking? I think just the plug itself
Looks like you are missing the screw in plug. If you can find a plug, great. If not, better to remove it and replace with a plastic Sunfish bailer. Intensity has them on sale for $35 right now. Sunfish® Bailer
 

EdT

New Member
I've replaced several plastic bailers and I'm careful with the boat. I race at a club where we launch from a wood dock. My old Sunfish had a metal bailer. I'd love to go back to that but can't find one. I couldn't remove the old one without damaging the hull so it went with the old boat. Does anyone have one or know where I can find a metal assembly? Thank you
 
Top