The C5: What we know so far

Thread starter #61
Think it's deeper than that: "we will introduce the ARC in May 2019, a contemporary racing rig and sail for Laser and Laser Radial that broadens the sailor weight range and increases overall performance." Sounds like a "C-Rig" device to me.
But why mention the Laser radial at all then? Everyone knows that the Radial and Standard share the same hull.
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#62
Think it's deeper than that: "we will introduce the ARC in May 2019, a contemporary racing rig and sail for Laser and Laser Radial that broadens the sailor weight range and increases overall performance." Sounds like a "C-Rig" device to me.
It seems to me that we will have two modifications:
The C5 rig will be sold by Performance Sailing Australia and appears to be targeting lighter weight sailors. Other C rigs may be in the pipeline.
The still mysterious ARC rig(s) will be sold by Laser Performance, but it isn't clear whether they will be competing with the MkII or the Radial rig.
I am speculating, but I think that neither the C5 nor the ARC rig will be legalized for (true) Laser racing any time soon. Perhaps at some point in time an effort will be made by PSA to legalize the C5 as a Laser, but LP will fight tooth-and-nail to prevent that. And the reverse for the ARC rig(s).
More in general, I also think that both companies are trying to come up with an (RS) Aero competitor, but let's face it, the Aero is at least one leg ahead in the race among newer 14-ft dinghies.


Considering that there are some 100,000 Lasers that are still sailing (my guess), I have no intention of selling mine. But if I had more space, money and time, the Aero would be on my wish list.
 

LaLi

Active Member
#63
More interesting snippets... this is what the head of PSA says in the same Laser Training Cabarete Facebook thread that beldar linked to:



Robert McMillan Chris Caldecoat ??

10 vk


Chris Caldecoat Robert McMillan a waste of time, it does not work. Just shows you how well the Laser world works together. C5 was shown at WS meeting with introduction plan imminent.

10 vk · Muokattu


Chris Caldecoat Sorry I should say that this type of concept was exhausted years ago, we went to a different style rig, the larger sails on the new C rigs works efficiently with the same crew weights. The plan if we can agree is to work upward from the bottom with introduction. We did review this rig and how it performed with the European Láser reps this week.

10 vk · Muokattu


Chris Caldecoat We gotta sort the open market issue out first, that should be laughable. The positive on that is the general feeling was that all IP owners across all classes seemed to think it possible. Interesting times.

Sea trails against 50 year old boat, could be a bit embarrassing for the new boats if we are any where near them in the Sea Trials.

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To summarize, taking into account the information in posts #19 - 21 above: the "ARC" (or "Doyle") rig will come in two sizes with weight ranges corresponding to the current Standard and Radial, and is totally an LP thing, without any ILCA or WS support. The "C" rigs are in turn supported by everyone else, will be seen at the trials, and are even expected to make the Laser reasonably competitive against the other contenders.

_
 

Rob B

Active Member
#64
More interesting snippets... this is what the head of PSA says in the same Laser Training Cabarete Facebook thread that beldar linked to:



Robert McMillan Chris Caldecoat ??


10 vk


Chris Caldecoat Robert McMillan a waste of time, it does not work. Just shows you how well the Laser world works together. C5 was shown at WS meeting with introduction plan imminent.


10 vk · Muokattu


Chris Caldecoat Sorry I should say that this type of concept was exhausted years ago, we went to a different style rig, the larger sails on the new C rigs works efficiently with the same crew weights. The plan if we can agree is to work upward from the bottom with introduction. We did review this rig and how it performed with the European Láser reps this week.


10 vk · Muokattu


Chris Caldecoat We gotta sort the open market issue out first, that should be laughable. The positive on that is the general feeling was that all IP owners across all classes seemed to think it possible. Interesting times.


Sea trails against 50 year old boat, could be a bit embarrassing for the new boats if we are any where near them in the Sea Trials.

10 vk


To summarize, taking into account the information in posts #19 - 21 above: the "ARC" (or "Doyle") rig will come in two sizes with weight ranges corresponding to the current Standard and Radial, and is totally an LP thing, without any ILCA or WS support. The "C" rigs are in turn supported by everyone else, will be seen at the trials, and are even expected to make the Laser reasonably competitive against the other contenders.

_
A lot of different information floating around out there. I was told from the NA class office the word from Andy Roy and Tracey Usher was we're sticking with the current full and radial rigs for the Olympic trials. We all KNOW there is no way LP will support a rig they are not driving the manufacturing and sales on. This is setting up to be a dumpster fire....
 
Thread starter #67
The ALCA AGM minutes has brought some more interesting snippets to the table...
http://www.lasersdownunder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018_19_ALCA_AGM_2019_Minutes_V3_With_Reports.pdf

"Prototype C5 Laser – Ken Hurling and Chris Caldecoat gave the following update;
The C5 prototype which had a demonstration sail at Devonport last week is best described by the ILCA video at
.
ILCA has agreed to soft launch the C5 in Oceania and Asia.
Some issues with the demonstration prototypes have been identified and are being fixed.
A small production run of the new rigs will be distributed for demonstration in Japan and some Australian Districts in the first half of 2019.
While, as ILCA President Tracy Usher has said, change to the Laser rig is inevitable and the C5 may show the way there is no plan to rapidly update the current Radial or Standard rig Laser."
 
Thread starter #68
They've also confirmed that the composite bottom section for the radial is coming as well. To me, thats a clear indication it will be around for a while longer - but Usher's Statement above contradicts what PSA have done. :-0
 

Rob B

Active Member
#70
Thanks LaLi. To avoid future hysteria I would encourage everyone to reach out to your class leadership, (me included!) when something screwy hits the internet. I communicated with the NA class office and then directly with the NA and ILCA presidents a few days ago and got the scoop. They let me know an official ILCA notice was coming. I don't think it's fair that we all jump on these guys when something goes down, but ask your district secretary to get an official word. The positive thing about the hysteria to me is it shows people still care! While this has been comforting I'm still leery of LP. Those guys can do some left field stuff sometimes, but hopefully that won't happen here.
 

torrid

Just sailing
#71
I'm glad to see some communication from the class regarding the matter.

As for the sea trials for the Olympics, obviously they are moving ahead with the existing rigs. However, I think pulling back the curtains on these new rigs in advance of the sea trials is deliberate. It's saying here is where we are now, but this is our vision of the future. Stick with us through 2024, and we can deliver something more advanced in 2028 which preserves much of the existing class and builder infrastructure.

How will this play out or benefit non-Olympian sailors? I think that remains to be seen.
 

Rob B

Active Member
#74
The "Leave a comment" function on your blog doesn't work.

_
LaLi is correct. I disagree with several of your points. 1st and foremost. LP is the owner of the Laser trademark and approved production or supplier of any and all class legal parts. A builder can make it, ILCA can support it, we as a class can probably vote on it. However, without the backing of LP it won't happen without a major lawsuit. Just ask the Sunfish guys.
 

torrid

Just sailing
#75
Greetings. You may be interested in my 10 comments on the ILCA statement on new rigs. Your comments are most welcome

Laser Class Statement on the Development of New Rigs: 10 Comments - Optimist, Open Bic, Youth & Olympic Sailing Blog
9. The lack of knowledge by ILCA of what Laser Performance does is a bit surprising. Why such a close relationship with the Australian class and the Australian manufacturer, and apparently no clue what Laser Performance - by far the dominant producer of Lasers - is doing in terms of rig development? It seems that there was a missed opportunity to get everybody to work together for the future of the Laser. Instead, there are disparate, competing initiatives, which may actually not bring about the desired outcomes.
This is not that surprising to me. There has been constant drama between the class, LP, PSA, and Bruce Kirby for what, close to ten years now? There will never be a Kumbaya moment among all the stakeholders as long as LP remains in the hands of the current owner.
 

Rob B

Active Member
#77
This is not that surprising to me. There has been constant drama between the class, LP, PSA, and Bruce Kirby for what, close to ten years now? There will never be a Kumbaya moment among all the stakeholders as long as LP remains in the hands of the current owner.
True- No one knows what LP will do next, (case in point their new rig to be released in May). In order for ILCA to understand what's going on there first needs to be open and honest communication from LP and an effort to work WITH the class. Again, look what happened with the Sunfish class.
 
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