Should I buy it?

cnovark

cnovark

Member
Can you guys help out a total newbie? I'm considering buying a used Sunfish. I'm pretty sure it's a 1971 based on pictures (green with no stripe) I've seen on the internet. It's got the new style rudder but I can see where the old style was removed on the top of the stern. There's also a drain installed in the stern. I'm going to look at it tomorrow. From what I've been reading on this forum, the stern drain seems like a red flag of leakiness, and I've also read that in 1971 the cockpit had problems that caused leaks. The current owner wants $1100 for it. I'm in the Houston area.

Thanks for any help you can give me!
 
$1100 sounds steep. It better be in very good shape or include a trailer. That said, I"m in the northeast so prices might be very different here. My sunfish has a stern drain so that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
 
cnovark said:
Can you guys help out a total newbie? I'm considering buying a used Sunfish. I'm pretty sure it's a 1971 based on pictures (green with no stripe) I've seen on the internet. It's got the new style rudder but I can see where the old style was removed on the top of the stern. There's also a drain installed in the stern. I'm going to look at it tomorrow. From what I've been reading on this forum, the stern drain seems like a red flag of leakiness, and I've also read that in 1971 the cockpit had problems that caused leaks. The current owner wants $1100 for it. I'm in the Houston area.

Thanks for any help you can give me!
Click to expand...

$1,000 sounds high, but I have considered that boats at that price where - as danpal noted-there was a good trailer and the boat was immaculate.

The combination of rudder conversion and stern drain plug would be a concern to me, mainly because I've seen less than adequate conversions, without backing plates and enough fiberglass reinforcement in the stern and such, where the boat subsequently developed a leak in back. With the rudder conversion they would have had to installed an inspection port, so I'd look at how that rudder bracket work was done from the inside. If for some reason there is no port, that would clearly be a problem.

Especially in this case, I'd weigh the hull and make sure it wasn't over about 130 pounds. In general, you'd want to read the tips on the Windline site that's often referenced in this Forum. If the boat comes with a new North racing sail and/or a new style racing daggerboard, that would be a plus. If the boat is painted, that would be a negative to me. I'd pay more attention to the condition of the hull than the deck.

Again, be sure to read the Windline tips. You can get an idea of asking prices by following Craigslist. The best actual deals, and best boats, are often through local sailing clubs. People are selling boats because they are buying a new boat or moving away or something, and you can often get nice boats that aren't 'advertised' very reasonably.
 
If there is no inspection port in the deck aft which is needed to install the new gudgeon bolts, than stay away. They had to have then used screws which will not hold. All in all a 1971 boat or older and with a trailer still seems high at $1100. A boat in good shape and a trailer in equally good shape of that vintage should be around $750 here in New England. But Sunfish are plentiful here so maybe where you are they are not and therefore can command a higher price. As mentioned previously check the weight and fill the mast tube with water to test the integrity of the tube. If the water drains out, there is most likely glass work needed on the mast tube.
 
Good tips. For that price Any damage should have a nice repair, wood should have nice finish, lines should be new or original in great shape. The sail should be new or a factory Sunfish sail with no holes.
That said the market drives the price. I keep an eye on prices along the Gulf coast and they are higher than upper east coast and south Florida, and for some reason Kansas city :) you have negotiating room on that boat, or another one will come along soon in Houston, Corpus or Austin.
 
I decided to pass on this one. There was no inspection port and it just didn't "speak" to me. I've got my eye on one in Austin and two in Dallas. Do you guys have any suggestions about what to ask the owner or request pictures of? I'd like to not have to do a 3-5 hour drive and not come back with a boat :). Thanks so much for your replies! They are very helpful. I have read the Windline tips and found them helpful too.
 
That price is most likely more than when it was new, for a 41 year old sunfish that's to much. Other members have made good points. I would suggest getting a post 71 hull as they have the best rudder system and the storage in the cockpit. Hold out for a good one and you will not be sorry. Condition and price need to balance and in your hunt go look at boats that are over priced or even out of your price range as doing so will help educate you. I bought mine from an online ad with no picture and had a 5 hour drive and. The boat was in sail-able condition. $350 1979 hull second owner.
All the best

Minas man
 
There are some documents you can look at on "buyers questions". Here is my experience from flipping 6 boats over the last year and owning 3, and assuming you want to sail for recreation.

1. What shape are the spars and mast in? Spars and mast are expensive to replace/ship and/ or hard to find. Ask about conditions of those and make sure they are Sunfish parts. Around here people like to "splice" the lower spar, it breaks or bends around the gooseneck and they'll cut it and put some type of pipe inside and bolt it back together. Even if the boat is cheap, where are you going to get replacements? And measure the mast to make sure it was not bent at the bottom then cut.
2. Is the rudder the right type and has been repaired? I have seen wood screwed to a transom and a totally different rudder used. Have they "fixed" it with screws, epoxy, metal plates,etc...also I have seen axe handles and tree roots used as tillers....really?
3. What conditions the sail in? A new Sunfish sail is worth 350 dollars, aftermarket without Sunfish logo about 1/2 that.
4. What shape is the hull in? There should be no leaks, although older boats may get a very small amount from sailing or if left outside during rain. Hull can have competent repairs and paint, but it helps to understand what was done. We looked at a boat where someone had refiberglassed the entire bottom, and they ran away.

You can check out some parts sites and get an idea how much it will cost to get the Sunfish ship shape.

Pictures? Maybe shots of the rudder/transom, gooseneck area, sail, the hull and the deck.

I would avoid boats where the only picture they have is of a dirty boat out in the weeds, the sail is dirty and rolled up and no other parts are in sight.

Have fun!
 
And you are basically paying $500 for a hull with a supermodified rudder. The rig is junk - take a Snark rig out it about 10 knots and those skinny aluminum booms will fold up like a coat hanger!
 
Used rig with sail would be minimum $300 so you will end up at $800. If hull is okay and not heavy make a lower offer.
 
cnovark said:
Can you guys help out a total newbie? I'm considering buying a used Sunfish. I'm pretty sure it's a 1971 based on pictures (green with no stripe) I've seen on the internet. It's got the new style rudder but I can see where the old style was removed on the top of the stern. There's also a drain installed in the stern. I'm going to look at it tomorrow. From what I've been reading on this forum, the stern drain seems like a red flag of leakiness, and I've also read that in 1971 the cockpit had problems that caused leaks. The current owner wants $1100 for it. I'm in the Houston area.

Thanks for any help you can give me!
Click to expand...
Price seems too high, I am also new to sunfish sailing and just bought two last month, a 1979 and 1980, both with trailers and paid 500.00 for each.
 
Update: This is the boat I'm going to get: http://austin.craigslist.org/boa/3183405634.html
Going to pick it up in Austin on Saturday. I'm gonna sail it around for the rest of the summer (which in Houston can last until mid-November) and then my parents said they will help me upgrade next year if I want to (I'm 26, but a public school teacher, so they feel sorry for me ;) ). I have a bunch of other pictures of it; it's a pre-1971, but I have a pretty good feeling about it. It comes with a racing sail--would a recreational sail be easier to learn on, or does it not really matter? Was thinking of getting a pretty Neil Pryde sail. Also, I was just thinking of taking some car polish to the deck--think that would clean it up a bit? Thanks, guys.
 
Looks good!! The sail does not make a difference for learning. Be a careful polishing things on a boat you will be sitting or possible standing on. As they say - "slippery when wet!" BB
 
Beldar makes an excellent point - don't rush to polish the topside; we don't want anyone sliding off!

Speaking of polish, I gave that new McLube boat polish a try - not the aerosol or liquid stuff - but their new hull polish. It hasn't resulted in any sudden improvement in the season standings unfortunately - the boat still misses the shifts just as much as before - but it seems to help reduce the scuzzy brown accumulation on the hull that we always get where we sail. It's not cheap, but one polishing seems to last most of the season.

I'd use the racing sail that comes with that boat for a few years, until you get a better idea of what you want. Most new sailors have the opposite problem with their new used boat, so you are a bit ahead in that regard.

Good luck, and don't forget to check out clubs, and maybe check out one of the Texas Sailing Cicuit Sunfish events. Drop a hint to your folks that a Sunfish Class membership would be a nice stocking-stuffer type gift.
 
Hard to tell in pics but cap for base of mast be missing. Easy to replace but make sure mast is proper length and not broken off.
 
It looks like maybe there is tape wrapped around the base of the boom, which as signal charlie noted just check that the cap is still on.

Most mast failures happen, when they do happen, right about at deck level where the stress is. Not suggesting that there is any issue with this boat, but just a couple of notes for perhaps future reference:

-If a Sunfish mast starts to look suspect at the deck point or at the gooseneck, where problems are most likely, the mast life can be prolonged dramatically by switching around the end caps so the top and bottom caps are reversed, and the stress is then on the other end. The (new) top corroded section might look sketchy since it's more visible up high now, but at least it isn't taking the load so much anymore.

-if a mast breaks at the dek level, it is still usable and actually makes a good heavy air mast. Just smooth of the broken end so the beak looks like an intentional cut, and put the end-cap in there. Re-tie the halyard on the spars so the gooseneck distance to deck is back to normal. You then have a rig that's almost exactly equivalent to having a Jens permanently in, but without the complication (and risk of messing it up) of a Jens -a perfect heavy-air set-up. This might not pass muster at a Regional event or above, but for most uses it would be better than a normal mast in Jens conditions. It would also be better than normal for everyday use for younger and/or lighter kids who would otherwise be overpowered much of he time.
 
If you're looking for good spots to sail near Houston, here's a few suggestions: Clear Lake (from the public landing near the Hilton on NASA Parkway), Sylvan Beach park (in La Porte at the end of Fairmont Parkway - the ramp is sheltered by a breakwater, but the water in the NE part of the bay is pretty choppy given the prevailing wind direction), and my personal favorite, the Texas City dike (has numerous ramps, or better yet, beach-launch).
 
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