Right-of-way when both gybing
- Thread starter 135630
- Start date
Pedal-Force
Member
I'm not 100%, but I don't think the gybe has anything to do with it. Starboard beats port, leeward beats windward, clear astern, all that stuff.
When downwind leeward is the side your boom is on, and changes instantly in a gybe, unlike a tack.
When downwind leeward is the side your boom is on, and changes instantly in a gybe, unlike a tack.
jeffers
Active Member
Difficult one this.... as I am guessing it was the original leeward boom that touched the other boat when he gybes... as he was ROW boat and he changed course (to initiate the gybe, I have assumed this) the surely Rule 16 comes in to the. Right of way boat changing course must ensure the give way boat has room to keep clear.
jonathan_twite
Member
I agree with Jeffers - when YOU change course: if you loose right-of-way and hit them, it's your fault. If you gain right-of-way, you have to give the other boat chance to keep clear.
To throw in another spanner in the works, you can gybe without changing course.
I haven't had a chance to go through the case history book yet, but it doesn't seem to be covered. But you have completed your gybe once the boom goes through the centre line of the boat, the boom position is irrelevent, so easing out your boom to being at 90 degrees is an action both do after they have gybed.
If the original port tack boat gybes first, they become starboard windward boat and must give way to the orginal starboard tack boat who doesn't need to give room to the original port tack boat because of the port tack boats actions. When the orginal starboard boat gybes, they loses the right of way and the original port tack boat acquires the right of way not from their own actions. Hence if the original starboard tack boat's boom touches the boom of the other boat because of the original starboard tack boats gybe, then they are at fault. Note the change of course if it occurs, is not relevent, because the boat that original port tack boat has not changed course since they acquired the right of way.
Now if the orignal starboard tack boat gybes first, they not only become a port tack boat, but also the windward boat. The original port tack boat gains the right of way through the actions of the orginal starboard boats action and does not need to give them room. When the original port tack boat subsequently gybes onto starboard tack, they retain the right of way and do not need to give room to the other boat unless they also change course during the gybe.
In both cases, the original starboard tack boat is in the wrong if the booms collide, irrespective of if they gybe before or after the original port tack boat. So it would be fair to assume if they gybed simultaneously, the the original starboard tack boat would still be in the wrong. In a potest, the original starboard tack boat will be found in the wrong unless they can persuade the protest committee that the original port tack boat not only gybed second, but also altered course, both of which could prove difficult if you initially claim you gybed simultaneously.
I haven't had a chance to go through the case history book yet, but it doesn't seem to be covered. But you have completed your gybe once the boom goes through the centre line of the boat, the boom position is irrelevent, so easing out your boom to being at 90 degrees is an action both do after they have gybed.
If the original port tack boat gybes first, they become starboard windward boat and must give way to the orginal starboard tack boat who doesn't need to give room to the original port tack boat because of the port tack boats actions. When the orginal starboard boat gybes, they loses the right of way and the original port tack boat acquires the right of way not from their own actions. Hence if the original starboard tack boat's boom touches the boom of the other boat because of the original starboard tack boats gybe, then they are at fault. Note the change of course if it occurs, is not relevent, because the boat that original port tack boat has not changed course since they acquired the right of way.
Now if the orignal starboard tack boat gybes first, they not only become a port tack boat, but also the windward boat. The original port tack boat gains the right of way through the actions of the orginal starboard boats action and does not need to give them room. When the original port tack boat subsequently gybes onto starboard tack, they retain the right of way and do not need to give room to the other boat unless they also change course during the gybe.
In both cases, the original starboard tack boat is in the wrong if the booms collide, irrespective of if they gybe before or after the original port tack boat. So it would be fair to assume if they gybed simultaneously, the the original starboard tack boat would still be in the wrong. In a potest, the original starboard tack boat will be found in the wrong unless they can persuade the protest committee that the original port tack boat not only gybed second, but also altered course, both of which could prove difficult if you initially claim you gybed simultaneously.
jeffers
Active Member
Good explanation Alan as always.
I did say I had assumed the course had changed to initiate the gybe (as 99 times out of 100 this is the most efficient way to gybe).
Either way I think we all agree that it was the actions of the initial right of way boat that caused the contact so they are at fault?
It would be useful to know if both boats were on the same tack before the incident....
I did say I had assumed the course had changed to initiate the gybe (as 99 times out of 100 this is the most efficient way to gybe).
Either way I think we all agree that it was the actions of the initial right of way boat that caused the contact so they are at fault?
It would be useful to know if both boats were on the same tack before the incident....
The only thing that can protect the original starboard tack boat is if they claim they took avoiding action, when they believed the port tack boat was not going to give way to them.
As always in a protest, so much depends on who can persuade the committee to believe their story more and the best option is always to avoid getting in the situation in the first place. Watch what's happening around you and avoid other boats by reacting early.
As always in a protest, so much depends on who can persuade the committee to believe their story more and the best option is always to avoid getting in the situation in the first place. Watch what's happening around you and avoid other boats by reacting early.
jeffers
Active Member
Always the best option IMO unless you are the inside boat at a mark trying to get (and being entitled to) mark room.
I see so many incidents where boats are approching and the inside boat has right of way and is entitled to room the the give way boats defence is that they did not have room to keep clear. This is explicitly covered in the rules now that they must act before they reach the zone if it is clear that they must give way.