Old boat at Masters Worlds

8817

8817

Member
I just entered the 2009 Master Worlds and had to switch my sail number because mine was too old. Its 8817 and the online app wouldnt accept it as valid.
I guess this is a sign of some sort :(

I cant wait to get to Halifax, I just have to wait until the ice melts before I can get out again.

Mike
 
I dont have a colored sail but I do have the original Elvstrom that came with it.

Its been in storage forever but its in pretty good shape.
 
Contact the ILCA Office and they can manually adjust the sail number on your entry form. Your sail number should correspond to the number on your hull.
 
Thanks fro the tip. To register I used a sail number from a laser that I used to race and knew would not be at the event. Then I emailed and asked them to change it to 8817.
I only had a few hours to register because I did not get the original notice, so I was worried that I would miss out because of it. Its funny now.
 
Here is a shot of me sailing it in January with the original Elvstrom sail on Lake Ontario.
Mike
 

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8817 said:
Here is a shot of me sailing it in January with the original Elvstrom sail on Lake Ontario.
Mike
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You have a really good looking vintage Laser, congrats!
And the best of all is: if the sail/hull/spars/foils are in the limits of the measurement diagrams of our days, your Laser would be full classlegal.
Imagine you sail at the Masters worlds with hat equipement and you finish in front of Lasers, built f.e. in 2009... That would give several competitors something to think ablout... ;)

Good success
LooserLu

P.S.: The sail already has a window, so, it is not out of the 1st production series (which had no window). However, that sail looks better than many other, younger sails of 70ties. Take care of your pretty Laser.
 
Nice picture!

I see you don't have any upgrades (vang, outhaul, etc..), are you nuts or so good!??

Good luck anyways!
 
For us measurers, old boats are a real hassle, rarely do they measurer in. Please have a really close look at the rules and measurement diagrams and double check that all components of your boat actually do measurer before you arrive at the regatta venue. The tolerances have changed over the years and other equipment may have perished but is still required (floatation cubes inside the hull).
 
AlanD: That's interesting in an unfortunate sort of way... by my interpretation of the 'spirit' of the rules, the older boat should be more 'legal' than a new one... 30+ years is a long time tho. Was curious if there is a measurement 'checklist' of sorts that you would use to measure such a boat. Do you get out the micrometer and make sure the wooden daggerboard is within tolerance? What specific things should an 'old boat' skipper look for?

8817: Way to go, you rock... keep the thing flat and dry... Your willingness to enter such an old boat in a large event like this speaks volumes for the one design concept.
 
AlanD said:
Contact the ILCA Office and they can manually adjust the sail number on your entry form. Your sail number should correspond to the number on your hull.
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Alan,

Ok, to take this a little further...

If you live on the other side of the world (in my case SE Asia) and would be chartering a boat in Halifax (or elsewhere depending on the regatta) and don't have a sail number, because I don't own a Laser, but are registered with the ILCA, can I actually apply for a personal sail number?
Or do I just use a number from our club fleet as there is no likelihood of that Laser being there??

Cheers,

BB
 
8817: Way to go, you rock... keep the thing flat and dry... Your willingness to enter such an old boat in a large event like this speaks volumes for the one design concept.[/QUOTE]

I have had new lasers but picked this one up a couple of years ago because it was in perfect condition. It is stiff and bone dry. I have no idea what the condition of the flotation is because there are no inspection ports. I will probably add some this year so I have a place for my lunch :)

I will have a look at the rules and see how it measures up but it is exactly like Joe Van Rossems and I noticed that he qualified with his at the Canadians last fall.(his sail number is in th 40k range though). I ll compare the two of them when our spring series starts.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Mike
 
8817 said:
8817: Way to go, you rock... keep the thing flat and dry... Your willingness to enter such an old boat in a large event like this speaks volumes for the one design concept.
Click to expand...

I have had new lasers but picked this one up a couple of years ago because it was in perfect condition. It is stiff and bone dry. I have no idea what the condition of the flotation is because there are no inspection ports. I will probably add some this year so I have a place for my lunch :)

I will have a look at the rules and see how it measures up but it is exactly like Joe Van Rossems and I noticed that he qualified with his at the Canadians last fall.(his sail number is in th 40k range though). I ll compare the two of them when our spring series starts.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Mike[/QUOTE]

If the boat is still dry, then you shouldnt have any problem... the older lasers have the encapsulated foam blocks, never ones have the inflatable cubitainers... if the boat is indeed dry, I wouldn't replace the foam unless you just want to be picky, or want to cut your knuckles open as you hack and saw the cubic foot foam blocks into chunks small enough to come out of the inspection port...
 
View attachment Measurement Form - Masters Worlds.doc

Hopefully I've attached the measurement form we used for the 2008 Masters Worlds, it might need to be slightly amended for any of last year's rule changes.

As measurers we use jigs to measure things and things ever measure in or fail. We check things that are covered in the class rules, but not usually things covered in the builders manual. We use measurement jigs for the spars, centreboard thickness, rudder thickness, rudder angle and battens. If something else looks wrong, we might do a comparison check with other equipment, so centreboard profile is not checked, but if it looks wrong, then we might do a physical check.

All boats are thoroughly checked, but the issue with old boats is that the tolerances on the boats have changed, for example many of the spar measurements were +/-12mm and people did set up the spars when end for ending at the extreme measurements on say the collar as it made the mast stiffer or softer. When we became an Olympic class, those tolerances were reduced to +/-5mm which made virtually no impact on mast stiffness, so no one bothers trying to play with the measurement any more. The older boats spars must comply with the current tolerances.

Older boats often have non laser blocks for the vang/mainsheet. The saddles on the boom have been moved 10mm because the original holes are corroded. Even the thickness of the (wooden) boards can be an issue if they have been vanished a dozen times in the last 30 years.

With the hull floatation devices, if the boat has hatch covers, then their presence can be easily checked. If the boat doesn't have have covers, it's usually assumed that the boat still has the floatation devices (this can be false assumption but it's more difficult to check).

It's really just a case of sitting down with the current Handbook and just going through it carefully, measuring what you can.

As for sail numbers and chartering boats, have a look at rule 4(e). Personally, if I didn't own a boat or my sail on my boat was in poor condition, I'd be chartering the matching sail and hull, assuming it's one of the boats used the previous week at the Open Standard Worlds, as it will be virtually a brand new boat and sail. If you are still in the situation of borrowing a sail from the club boats, I'd be doing a quick talk with your club and buying the boat which the sail corresponds to, for say $1 and selling the boat back to them after the Worlds for $1. So technically at the time of the event you were the owner and thus complying with Rule 4(e).
 
AlanD: Thank you, this is awesome information... What a pain in the *** your job must be sometimes.
 
Thanks AlanD I really appreciate the information and I preemptively apologize to anyone that has to measure my boat :). It looks like a lot of work.
Mike
 
AlanD said:
View attachment 2874

As for sail numbers and chartering boats, have a look at rule 4(e). Personally, if I didn't own a boat or my sail on my boat was in poor condition, I'd be chartering the matching sail and hull, assuming it's one of the boats used the previous week at the Open Standard Worlds, as it will be virtually a brand new boat and sail. If you are still in the situation of borrowing a sail from the club boats, I'd be doing a quick talk with your club and buying the boat which the sail corresponds to, for say $1 and selling the boat back to them after the Worlds for $1. So technically at the time of the event you were the owner and thus complying with Rule 4(e).
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For the last 4 or 5 Laser Master's Worlds, the matching sail number/hull number rule has been waived to the best of my knowledge. The event charter boats no longer included the "charter sail option." The sails that are mandatorily used in the open worlds, are now held and sold with the charter boats. The master's worlds has been a "bring your own sail" event unless something has changed for this year. I personally miss the days of charter sails. I capitalized on using one of the "almost new" sails more then once. I'll miss pulling my rental grommet down to the boom when the breeze is on... now it's my $600 sail that gets ridden hard and then brought home to use in club races.. Bring back the charter sails!
 
Hi Peter

The matching sail number / hull number rule did apply at Terrigal, but on charter boats the exceptions laid out in Rule 4(e) apply. For those using their own boats, they still had to have matching sail/hull numbers who were mostly Australians. We assume that the sail you're using on a charter boat has sail numbers which corrosponds to your own hull number as to some extent there is very little we can do to confirm that you aren't using a sail number that doesn't belong to you. From memory, a few people at Terrigal did manage to organise something with the dealer to use a charter sail, but I could be wrong and it could be people who purchased a charter boat and then used the sail that came with it.

Alan - co regatta measurer at Terrigal.
 
Alan,
May I ask a purely hypothetical question please. A Canadian, whom is on an expat assignment overseas, is coming to the Masters Worlds. He is borrowing a boat from a friend and plans to bring his own sail with which to race with. He has registered with his own sail number, but the boat will have different Hull Number. Will this cause an issue at time of measurement?
I thank you in advance for considering this "purely" hypothetical question!!!;)
 
If I'm reading what you're saying correctly, then no it's not an issue. Borrowing a boat is the same as chartering it. As long as you are using the sail number of the boat you own, then the hull number is essentially irrelevant, as long as you have the approval of the race committee (which you must seek). See rule 4(e)ii.
 
Many thanks! It is amazing what one can learn from actually reading the rule book!!! Probably would make your life easier too!
 
And I thought I had the worlds oldest boat!

I just sold my 10677 with original Elvstrom sail to become a club boat at Elwood Sailing Club, Melbourne, Australia. What I love is that my boat came all the way from Canada to Australia, some time in the 70's. I'll miss her, but I'm loving using the turbo kit on my new boat, 181726. The turbo kit certainly makes life a lot easier, tomorrow I find out if it makes me any faster.
 
petdr said:
And I thought I had the worlds oldest boat!

I just sold my 10677 with original Elvstrom sail to become a club boat at Elwood Sailing Club, Melbourne, Australia. What I love is that my boat came all the way from Canada to Australia, some time in the 70's. I'll miss her, but I'm loving using the turbo kit on my new boat, 181726. The turbo kit certainly makes life a lot easier, tomorrow I find out if it makes me any faster.
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I dont think mine is the oldest in the world, I seem to remember someone sailing with a sail number that was less than 1000. It will probably be the oldest at the worlds though.
There seem to be a few with sail numbers under 20k but I dont know if they are typos.
I know someone else from our club is going with 41411.
Mine was built in June of 1973 here in Ontario.

Mike
 
The oldest Laser is the Laser of Bruce Kirby. To that Laser, a prototype, the number "#100" was given, if I remember correct to an interesting documantation, written by drLaser, about the oldest Laser. This Laser got Sailnumber "0". Kirby donated her to the Mystic Seaport Marine Museum at the US Eastcoast. If I ever am able to visit the USA , I definitly plan to visit that Museum to take a photo of that Laser. There are still some Lasers out with original Sailnumbers under "#200".
 
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