Hang in there Ian. It's the introduction of the "replica" sails that, (IMO) has brought this matter to a head faster than it ever would have with out. LP is losing money to the replica builders and will continue to do so until they come up w/a better solution than the current 25 year old sail material. I"m impressed with the traffic and number of postings on this thread. Hopefully the right people, (like Alan and Tracy) are reporting our frustrations to the powers that be and our voices will be heard. We just have to keep making noise!
A small correction to above. Laser sails are measured in-house at the factories, in addition Cliff is responsible for overseeing each manufacturing facility to ensure that they are following the class specifications. Other Olympic and International classes are moving towards this licensed, in-house measuring arrangement (personally I think they are nuts).
As for the quality and quantity of measuring, it's a significant part of the reason why I very much doubt I will renew my ISAF measurement status in 2012/2013 when it runs out. The district associations comities aren't interested in supporting us in terms of running measurement, disciplining those that deliberately infringe measurement rules, maintaining the measurers qualifications by paying to do the courses we're meant to do or even having the comity members' own boats being legal. Further, all this replica gear is making the job far too hard and if we miss something other competitors will get upset at me, rather than the competitor using the gear, or the suppliers of this illegal equipment. In the mean time, effectively I stopped measuring at any events. Why should I care when no one else does?
Is this a sign that the sailors have had enough, and are taking collective action to re-take their Class, no longer trusting the builders and ILCA? Or is it a further breakdown of Laser sailors no longer caring about the strict one-design premise and a strong Class association?
Eric
Suncoast-DIYC Laser Fleet
Thanks for the update Tracy, appreciate it even if it's not what everyone wants to hear.
Any word on the existing sailmakers, ie North no longer producing for LP and and/or a replacement ?
For example, there is the need for ISAF approval and, yes, this includes consideration of the 2012 Olympics. While 99.99% of us don't care about the Olympics in terms of our sailing of Lasers, it turns out we do need to consider the ramifications - in particular since a very large number of countries use various major Laser events (e.g. continental championships) as part of their qualification process. At this stage, Olympic level sailors, given their high level of training, will be reluctant to see the equipment change with the Olympics so close and will want the current Standard sail used in 2012.
Many thanks for the update.
The Olympics is already costing us in the UK a fortune - and I do not appreciate having to keep spending more on my sails because the ISAF want to delay major improvements until after some event a few elite sailors want to play in has passed.
The way the very high costs of the olympics has been "sold" to us suckers paying for it is how it will encourage people to start sport. So ironic that significant improvements/major cost reductions in participating are actually likely to be delayed because of this same event. There is more to sport than the elite few who play at Olympics. In Lasers there are many many more people struggling to afford Lasers. The knock-offs are making massive inroads and destroying the class yet it appears the ISAF may make a bad situation worse for us all because of something irrelevant to those who sail Lasers at club/regatta level.
How will those elite sailors feel when they turn up at a club and everybody will know they are the cause of us all spending vast sums of rubbish sails - so he/she can play at some elite competition in a few years time. So say that anybody wanting to qualify has to use old sails and the selection is based on those registering as wanting to qualify and using old sails. Problem solved.
Was the class membership ever asked about the Laser becoming an Olympic class ? If no vote held and passed then I would say ignore the ISAF as being irrelevant to our class and let us try and restore the class rules without their hindrance.
Whilst it is nice to have a new sail 110% perfect, the current sail is doing the class so much damage (one-design gone out of the window already), getting it out sooner yet not 110% right can be more important than verifying and testing for 10 years (by which time the class will be dead).
I must confess that whilst it is good news that something is happening, the timescales inspire me to start looking for a Solo this winter. I love my Laser but there are so few on the water these days (so many knock-off sails) and I am fed-up with sailing against boats that are not Lasers, not handicapped, etc.
Ian
Wouldn't it take time for those people to want to buy new sails anyway? If they spent the money on a replica what would make them want to spend the money on a new sail when the cost is significantly higher anyway?
Plus if they do something soon they won't be making enough sails to satisfy the demand. Look a the blades, they only make enough for new boats and nothing else. What is to say that LP does that with sails? I'd wait so they create a big enough supply to handle what would happen when this goes public.
---snip--- If nothing else, I'd like to know whether it's worth buying a new sail from the US now, while the AUS to US currency exchange rate is so healthy!
Hence the time is important and the sooner the better. Hopefully a return to one design is possible otherwise the class is dead.
Funny, I was just thinking that we in the US are going to have to figure out how to get sails from AUS....
We're paying about AUS$920 for a North sail with numbers at the moment, which at the current exchange rate is about US$880. Hydes are $100 more. Being able to ship a sail with numbers from the US for AUS$600 or so is a pretty attractive proposition...
The sails are cheaper yet from the UK, particularly if there is a way of reducing the freight costs. My next one will is likely to come from the UK, hand carried by a mate (business trip) and VAT claimed back. Although the way our dollar is climbing against the USD, it might be another from the US.
---snip---
Funny, I was just thinking that we in the US are going to have to figure out how to get sails from AUS....
Does anyone have any numbers on how many knock-off sails versus class legal sails are being used around the world? How big a problem is it really? Is the problem widespread or is it just a big problem in some fleets and not an issue in others?
If the new design is considerably more expensive than the old one it will hardly solve the problem of the replicas; we would probably only see different replicas.
It's not a problem for my fleet. Everyone uses legal sails, and seems pretty happy to do so. I think the general attitude in the fleet is that a new sail would be nice, but in the meantime the old sail isn't as bad as its reputation implies.
Without wanting to generalise too much, I suspect that replica sails are a greater problem in fleets with a higher proportion of non-class members.
Over the last few years I have been a member of 4 different sailing clubs (I have been moving around a bit) and all have significant numbers of knock-off sails. One club (I am no longer a member of), 1st time I turned-up and rigged I was immediately told I should stop using the class legal sail, save it for important events and buy a replica sail. More recent clubs have around/over 50% knock-off sails (including class captains). It may easily be that non-class members are more likely to sail with knock-off gear - certainly at one club I have sailed at class membership is exceptionally low.
Once a new sail is available, I wonder if the Class Associations could start acting to revert the "anything goes" rules many fleets seem to have adopted. Maybe say to clubs that "next year if you want to be a Laser fleet you can only sail Lasers and clubs with "anything goes" will not have open events listed, not have any support from class association, etc." (with allowances for those who already have knock-offs).
Ian