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new lines for Laser 2

Rikthesailor

New Member
I am totally new to sailing.. ironically i now have two sailboats and still need to learn to sail :)

I own a laser 2 and i would like to replace a lot of the lines. Not the stainless steel ones... just the others...sheets etc. Can anyone steer me to a place online to purchase the ropes (lines) Also .... I don't know how to identify what each line is. Is there a place online that i can go to know which line is, type, and sizes needed for this particular boat?
 

Cactus Cowboy

Well-Known Member
Damn, for a moment there I thought you meant they redesigned the hull, lol... my bad. ;)

Those S/S "lines" fall into the category of "standing rigging"---a separate animal from "running rigging." But I still have faith in ya, lol... you found a good forum, these nautical hee-roes will set ya on the right course! Cheers!!! :rolleyes:

I'm just wondering, why don't you walk into a chandlery or boat shop with the old lines you wanna replace, then choose new lines to do just that? But I get it, you want the additional opinion too, no extra charge, lol. :)

I reckon Lali will be the hand to answer your specific questions, particularly about the Laser 2... moi, I'm a diehard Laser sailor, but the original Laser & the Laser 2 are different animals. CHEERS!!! :cool:

P.S. There might be some resources here at this site to help you in your quest, somebody is bound to mention them if they exist. Good luck!!! :D
 
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Rikthesailor

New Member
I'm just wondering, why don't you walk into a chandlery or boat shop with the old lines you wanna replace, then choose new lines to do just that? But I get it, you want the additional opinion too, no extra charge, lol. :)
Im afraid to pull all the old lines in case i can't remember how to put them back together:(. I would have more luck if i could replace one at a time with the new ones;)
 

Cactus Cowboy

Well-Known Member
Or you could photograph the entire layout as it currently exists... though it might be WRONG, lol. Welcome to the nautical world... I've been sailing for well over four decades now, and I'm STILL learning, aye? Not a bad philosophy, to learn something new every day... almost a Zen thing, lol. :cool:

P.S. Before I crawl off to view some entertainment on the 65" curved screen, I reckon you've earned some island shots... I know I have these posted elsewhere, but damned if I remember which thread, lol. Meh, there are cool island pics on both pages of this old thread, Los Coronados off the northern end of Baja, you won't find pics like these anywhere else on the web... cool wildlife sanctuaries, Los Coronados, and a separate reality from the Stateside grind, lol. ;)

Random outdoor adventure shots...

ENJOY!!! I'M OFF TO CRACK ANOTHER BOTTLE OF VINO AND WATCH SOME SE-WIOUS ACTION ON THE CURVED SCREEN!!! CHEERS!!! :rolleyes:
 
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LaLi

Well-Known Member
you could photograph the entire layout as it currently exists... though it might be WRONG
Yes. Take and post photos of all your present sheeting/control systems, and we can then figure out how to improve them (and you can figure how to rig them again)!

Sailboats.co.uk (the owner of rights to the Laser 2) does sell a complete line set. You'd get the right lengths (plus then some) at least, although some thicknesses are strange - 6 millimetres for the main cunningham, outhaul and traveller is not only overkill, but it may not even fit properly through some of the fittings. (Also, the picture on that page is not of an L2 set.)

Combined with some numbers from the old PSE manual, I'd recommend the following (length/diameter):
  • mainsheet - 9 metres/8 millimetres
  • jibsheet - 7 m/8 mm
  • spinnaker sheet - 13.5 m/6 mm
  • vang - length depends on how much purchase and how long a tail you want, at least 4 m/5 or 6 mm
  • traveller - length depends on how you rig it, but 5 m/5 mm should do
  • main cunningham - found no number but 1 m/4mm should do
  • outhaul - 3.1 m/4 or 5 mm
  • clew tie-down - 0.65 m/4 mm
  • jib cunningham - length of foredeck + 0.8 m/4 mm
  • hiking strap line - length depends on strap length/4 or 5 mm
  • rudder downhaul - length depends on where the cleat is/3 mm
The spinnaker sheet should have a Dyneema core, while all the others should be all-polyester double braids. The two other sheets can be even pretty soft and relatively stretchy, but the actual control lines should be higher quality, "pre-stretched" or comparable.

There is a shop in Michigan called Midwest Sailing that carries some hard-to-get L2 parts, but I don't know if they can help with the ropes. No harm in asking though.

How old is your boat, what is its sail number/transom code?

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Rikthesailor

New Member
Yes. Take and post photos of all your present sheeting/control systems, and we can then figure out how to improve them (and you can figure how to rig them again)!

Sailboats.co.uk (the owner of rights to the Laser 2) does sell a complete line set. You'd get the right lengths (plus then some) at least, although some thicknesses are strange - 6 millimetres for the main cunningham, outhaul and traveller is not only overkill, but it may not even fit properly through some of the fittings. (Also, the picture on that page is not of an L2 set.)

Combined with some numbers from the old PSE manual, I'd recommend the following (length/diameter):
  • mainsheet - 9 metres/8 millimetres
  • jibsheet - 7 m/8 mm
  • spinnaker sheet - 13.5 m/6 mm
  • vang - length depends on how much purchase and how long a tail you want, at least 4 m/5 or 6 mm
  • traveller - length depends on how you rig it, but 5 m/5 mm should do
  • main cunningham - found no number but 1 m/4mm should do
  • outhaul - 3.1 m/4 or 5 mm
  • clew tie-down - 0.65 m/4 mm
  • jib cunningham - length of foredeck + 0.8 m/4 mm
  • hiking strap line - length depends on strap length/4 or 5 mm
  • rudder downhaul - length depends on where the cleat is/3 mm
The spinnaker sheet should have a Dyneema core, while all the others should be all-polyester double braids. The two other sheets can be even pretty soft and relatively stretchy, but the actual control lines should be higher quality, "pre-stretched" or comparable.

There is a shop in Michigan called Midwest Sailing that carries some hard-to-get L2 parts, but I don't know if they can help with the ropes. No harm in asking though.

How old is your boat, what is its sail number/transom code?

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Im excited to find some people that know about Laser 2. This boat has not been registered for many many years. Partly because it did not have to be in
wisconsin. Michigan is required. I was not able to find the registration number when i registered it so i had to go through the whole process again. Ironically i have found it. Oh well :) it is on the pic.the sail number is 5292
I purchased a new main sheet today and also a new line for the boom lang. i think the stuff they had on the boom lang was too heavy . i might have to go down to 1/4. i bought 5/16 8mm. same for the main sheet
 

Attachments

Riv

Active Member
Lali has answered comprehensively. One small thing you can do is to wash all the ropes. Take them off and put them in an old pillow case. (The smallest rope can go through the holes in the drum) and do a hot 60degC wash with bio detergent. The difference is amazing.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Sorry that I haven’t answered yet, I’ve been away from home for some time and will be for a few days still. (I really don’t like doing this on my phone!). But just for now, I can say your boat was built in Montreal in June 1980, and its real sail number is 1129 (your mainsail is from a newer boat if it says 5292). I think that’s the second oldest Laser 2 I’ve seen on this forum; the first ones were built in December 1979.

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Rikthesailor

New Member
Sorry that I haven’t answered yet, I’ve been away from home for some time and will be for a few days still. (I really don’t like doing this on my phone!). But just for now, I can say your boat was built in Montreal in June 1980, and its real sail number is 1129 (your mainsail is from a newer boat if it says 5292). I think that’s the second oldest Laser 2 I’ve seen on this forum; the first ones were built in December 1979.

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That's interesting to know. Another question. If I wanted to get a
Sorry that I haven’t answered yet, I’ve been away from home for some time and will be for a few days still. (I really don’t like doing this on my phone!). But just for now, I can say your boat was built in Montreal in June 1980, and its real sail number is 1129 (your mainsail is from a newer boat if it says 5292). I think that’s the second oldest Laser 2 I’ve seen on this forum; the first ones were built in December 1979.

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That's interesting to know!. Another question, where would I get a Spinnaker for this boat
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
Since you are new to sailing, put the spinnaker way down on your list of things to buy and learn about.
Don't forget to practice capsize recoveries.
:)
 

joe c

banned
Sounds like great advice :)
i picked one up in the spring. first boat ive had in years. dont worry about practicing your righting. youll have plenty of chances. at 15-20kts holy crap you get busy and fast! i suggest going out in under 10mph winds. you can easily get in swimming lessons gybing at that speed! lol. were at about 500 avg for our outings. my head sail trimmer is a newbie though. so...it can be tricky. but weve been having a blast. i ordered all my lines from one design us on the cape. i replaced everything but kept all the existing for emergency backups that i take with me in a gear bag. i stuff it all in a port in the aft.

fogh up in toronto has nos spinns for like 350 bucks. i need to get on that.

ive done the laser traveler block upgrades rigged the traps, got a windex for it that im pretty sure will be sacrificed within a few weeks. did the mainsheet block (harken 57 carbo ratchomatic) and reinforced eveything wood wise in the hulll. i definitely suggest cutting in inspection ports to check your framing bulkheads etc. mine were all completely trashed. so i spent a bunch of time epoxying the hull deck seam and installing sistered or new white oak blocking for the cockpit stuff (hiking straos mast step etc.) check those mainsheet cleats on the gunnels too. one of mine was pulled out when i got the boat. i have schematics for the blocking. also some of the floatation in the hull had holes in them. mine turtles instantly. well....not in 12 feet of water. but id definitely put in some ports and have a look inside. ive also used an 8" fan in one port and blown air through the hull and out the other port to dry it in there which is way convenient. i got replacement floats from intensity sails im pretty sure. next up is the vang. which.....uh....taking advice on it.....thx.... next year new main....probably paint the mast and boom black and ill have matt at tannermatic.com if i can keep from running it aground...hope to have a cf dagger and rudder for next year. i also need to re rig the outhaul. when the boom is out dragging in the water....its really difficult to get hold of that. i just havent figured out a good route for it to get into the cockpit.

still a ton to do.

messages_0 (2).jpeg
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Sorry about the further delay. Now back to the pictures in post #6 :rolleyes:

Pictures 1 and 2: The vang is usually rigged with the cleat block on the mast, but the other way is ok, too. No thicker than 6 mm rope will fit properly through the cleat and blocks, and anything thinner than 5 mm is likely to slip in the cleat.

The trapeze elastic (the red one) is threaded through the spinnaker bag attachment eyes; it should actually run only through the eyes on the side decks and the fairlead in front of the mast. Newer boats have an extra cheek block close to the bow to get more stretching distance.

3: The mainsheet cleats on the side decks are a bit redundant when you have a swiveling cleat in the middle of the boat (and vice versa), so I'd probably take them off. Not a problem really though.

There seems to be no fairlead for the spinnaker sheet on the gunwale that would lead the sheet across the boat at the cleats (the smaller ones forward of the mainsheet side cleats). They look like this.

The grabrail is broken, but new ones are easy to get, as it's one of the few parts that the Laser and Laser 2 have in common. You just need to drill a small hole at the forward end of each rail so you can rig an elastic line rail-to-rail under the hiking straps to keep the straps off the cockpit floor.

4: Rig the traveller like this:

It's also better to tie the mainsheet to the becket block so that it simply runs through the becket (aft to forward) and has a figure 8 at the end.

5: Looking at the type and location of fittings, it appears that the mast is considerably newer than the hull. Not a problem, just an interesting fact.

Do you have the rings and height adjustment systems for the trapezes?

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joe c

banned
And don't forget a stopper on your mainsheet after it goes through the ratchet. Trying to restring all of that after you flip it totally sucks.
 

joe c

banned
Sorry that I haven’t answered yet, I’ve been away from home for some time and will be for a few days still. (I really don’t like doing this on my phone!). But just for now, I can say your boat was built in Montreal in June 1980, and its real sail number is 1129 (your mainsail is from a newer boat if it says 5292). I think that’s the second oldest Laser 2 I’ve seen on this forum; the first ones were built in December 1979.

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hey...does that mean mines the oldest??? 953! :) and from the same shop!!! looking at his, hes got the jib tracks. it looks like the mast has been retrofitted for the bottle adjusters for the diamonds too. you can see the original holes machined just a little lower near the step. thats gotta be retrofit stuff. im pretty sure mines all original junk. kinda cool. i really need to find some other laser2s to sail with!
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
hey...does that mean mines the oldest??? 953! :)
Yeah, I think yours is the only one so far with a three-digit number (the first production boat was number 450 for some reason).
it looks like the mast has been retrofitted for the bottle adjusters for the diamonds too. you can see the original holes machined just a little lower near the step. thats gotta be retrofit stuff.
I don't see any extra holes. I haven't seen the hook-and-hole attachment for the turnbuckles before, but the other fittings are arranged in a way that was typical for later North American boats. I'd guess it's a late 1980s mast.
next up is the vang. which.....uh....taking advice on it.....thx....
Not much that you either can or need to do to it. The 4:1 with a v-cleat is what it is, you can get more purchase by adding a loop in the line but I don't think it's necessary for recreational sailing. The line needs to be 5 or 6 mm to work (see post #14 above). A swivel between the cleat block and the mast might be an upgrade to think about.
i also need to re rig the outhaul. when the boom is out dragging in the water....its really difficult to get hold of that. i just havent figured out a good route for it to get into the cockpit.
The outhaul is a "set and forget" type adjustment on a recreational Laser 2. You don't need to adjust it much at all on the water, and absolutely no need to lead it into the cockpit. However, looking at the picture in post #13, your cleat is located in a strange place, and you might relocate it to the standard position that's visible in picture 2 in post #6.
But what you really need is a clew tie-down line, which I don't see in your picture. A length of 4 mm pre-stretch twice through the clew hole and around the boom (but inside the outhaul line) is the classic solution. Tight enough that the sail almost touches the boom. It separates the functions of leech and foot tension so the mainsail is much more controllable.

(Also looking at the picture, your forestay looks very short; the mast should lean back with the shrouds loose when the jib is down. Can be remedied with another piece of 4 mm pre-stretch, between the stay and the u-bolt.)

You've done an admirable amount of work for your boat. I myself would have given up long ago. I still hope I can help with the smaller details with which I am familiar.

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joe c

banned
That's very interesting about the mast rake..I guess the more important thing would be where is it when the jib is up. Because that can all be adjusted with jib Cunningham too..this damned boat tuning thing hurts my head. The fore stay is pretty loose when the jib is up. Don't distract me please. Lol.

I ordered the xd vang..I mean why not? Haha.

I've changed the outhaul situation twice already. That pic I think was it's second outing.. but I think it's going to change again.. longer line with an anchor point closer to the mast.. But I hear ya about set it and forger it. I've been rigging it powered down as much as possible when it goes in the water.. then trimming on everything once I'm underway..once I'm out around the point I'm going down wind and even in 10kts I'm way too busy to try and get to it. So working on it.

As far as the work. Ihave my own shop.. So makes things way easier. But I probably shouldn't have been so fixated on this particular model of boat. But it was an hour drive and the price was right and as a kid I always was envious of lasers. But I've decided I don't want a solo rig.

One of my best friends built high performance and cruisers for years with Boston boat works. He now specializes In Rhodes 19 refit and repair. So I have good resources all around.

I will admit....it might have a 505 as a big brother before the end of the weekend though..these damned little boats are addictive.. lol.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
That's very interesting about the mast rake..I guess the more important thing would be where is it when the jib is up. Because that can all be adjusted with jib Cunningham too..this damned boat tuning thing hurts my head. The fore stay is pretty loose when the jib is up. Don't distract me please. Lol.
I'll distract you just enough :D more to tell you the jib cunningham has nothing to do with the basic tuning (mast rake/rig tension). And that the mast should have a small but measureable forward prebend when the jib is up. If it doesn't, then the shrouds are too loose. And to get them tight enough, the forestay can't be too tight. Etc.
(Actually, the Laser 2 has one of the simplest sloop rigs to tune. But I'm comparing it to the Lightning, whose rig I still don't quite understand after 16 years in the class :oops: )

I ordered the xd vang..I mean why not?
Why not? Well, for example, because NO "XD" equipment is meant for the Laser 2. Laser, yes. Laser 2, no. There's no guarantee that anything "Laser" (or "ILCA") will even fit the L2, or work, or make sense. The vang might actually work, but you need an extra twisted shackle to attach it to the mast. Did you say earlier that you "did the Laser traveller block upgrades"? That one sounds like it's in the "no sense" category. (See the video in post #14 for more info.)

I will admit....it might have a 505 as a big brother before the end of the weekend though..these damned little boats are addictive.. lol.
:eek: I owned a 505 for 12 years... even sailed in the Worlds with it. That class is a total rabbithole, easy to go in but hard to come out! The possibilities for building control systems are practically endless - even things that one never thought as adjustable, may well be. Ever heard of trapeze twings or chainplate travellers? Their current spinnaker pole systems have more moving parts than a whole Laser 2...
You've been warned :D

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joe c

banned
Yeah. I figured out the twist shackle thing already and it should go right on. So not worried..

I'll setup the laser and shoot a line against the mast at some point if I can figure out a decent horizon..

The laser performance boom blocks and traveller block are the same..dropped right on and work perfectly with the yellow rooster main sheet. I should have not riveted that forward block on though. So on the list to be redone. Learn as you go...

I'd love to get that far into the 505 but I'm really just considering it because it's close by and cheap money. And it might be fun to have a real raceboat just to prove my inability at the sailing part. Most likely it'll just get racked in the shop somewhere until I feel like getting into it in a year or so.. I mentioned my buddy who worked for Boston boat works.....mark Lindsay started that company.... you should recognize that name..I'm way to familiar with the hole you speak of.. lol.
 

joe c

banned
oh!!!! the boat locker in ct carries grab rails. i got mine from there. and i need to check....maybe us one design. i actually ordered them from 2 different places waiting for the first order to arrive. his imports were apparently stuck in customs and i just ordered another set from someplace else. i cant remember where, but i know the boat locker up in bridgeport has them in stock and no duty. i got both sets about 3 days apart from each other of course.
 

joe c

banned
heres the machined hole in the mast from where the old diamonds went through and into the tensioners in the bottom cap of the mast. exactly like mine. i bet those holes were drilled later for the turnbuckles. mine does not have the jib car tracks though. just the cams with the fairlead plate things screwed to the deck.

20210624_180906.jpg
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
mark Lindsay started that company.... you should recognize that name..I'm way to familiar with the hole you speak of.. lol.
:eek: Understatement: I've heard of him :D
What number is that 505 you're about to get, which builder?
The laser performance boom blocks and traveller block are the same..dropped right on and work perfectly with the yellow rooster main sheet.
Would like to see pictures of your traveller setup.
The Rooster Laser sheet is 5 metres too long as an L2 mainsheet. Not a problem of course if one has access to a pair of scissors :D but another example of "Laser" parts that aren't automatically compatible with the L2.
heres the machined hole in the mast from where the old diamonds went through and into the tensioners in the bottom cap of the mast. exactly like mine. i bet those holes were drilled later for the turnbuckles.
No, that hole you've circled is the exit for the internal jib halyard. It cleats on the rack directly below it. You have the original external halyard with the lock way up the mast. Rik's mast shows the later standard North American setup, so it didn't come originally with that boat.
mine does not have the jib car tracks though. just the cams with the fairlead plate things screwed to the deck.
The sideways jib tracks were probably an option from the start, and European boats had them always. Later North American boats have a very short fore-and-aft track, which is much smarter. With the sideways track you keep the lead almost always in the innermost position anyway.

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joe c

banned
It's a Parker. Older boat. Still waiting on more info on it..it needs a bunch of wood replacement..probably leaks like a seive.. but has a few sets of sails with it blah blah. The guy has a bunch of stuff. Sunfish laser l2....it's actually what I'm afraid of turning into.

I don't know Marc personally but I've seen plenty of photos of his work on 505s and some of it is just stunning lookimg..

Imma have to go look at those entrances for the diamonds now. Lol. Would they have just repuposed those holes?? That would have made the most sense from a production point.

What's also weird is my mast has the slheeve block hole for the spin but I don't think there are any screw holes where it went.. and there is zero other spin rigging on the boat..I. guessing there must have been a plastic plug they shoved in there? It's all very odd. I'm also a little surprised they would have changed to the turnbuckles so quickly in the production run so early on in the same plant.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
my mast has the slheeve block hole for the spin but I don't think there are any screw holes where it went.. and there is zero other spin rigging on the boat..
I think they sold spinnakerless versions of the boat at the time, but all the masts still had the holes ready for installing the spinnaker fittings. Pretty smart actually.
I'm also a little surprised they would have changed to the turnbuckles so quickly in the production run so early on in the same plant.
Rik's mainsail carries a 5xxx number, and the mast may very well have come from the same 1985 boat.


(Parker 7573? The closest number I remember is 7581, also a Parker with a wooden foredeck and centreboard case. It was a really hot boat at the time.)

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joe c

banned
I think they sold spinnakerless versions of the boat at the time, but all the masts still had the holes ready for installing the spinnaker fittings. Pretty smart actually.
Rik's mainsail carries a 5xxx number, and the mast may very well have come from the same 1985 boat.


(Parker 7573? The closest number I remember is 7581, also a Parker with a wooden foredeck and centreboard case. It was a really hot boat at the time.)

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i passed on it. looks like a decent boat and the woman who owns it is doing the sunfush nationals. i just did the drive up to buffalo over the weekend. 7 hours one way and have another hour one way probably tomorrow and didnt feel like tossing in another 2 oneway to delaware. or spending the cash on something thats going to get racked for months. the boat has been on delaware craigslist since at least march. search 505 and it comes up 5 results down if anyone is interested. boat for 900 with a couple sets of sails and rig and a titled registered trailer for another 350 i think. i just dont want to start on another 40 yr old boat. ill probably regret not buying it.
 
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