New design Standard Sail

Thread starter #1
Does anyone have experience with the new standard sail? Will it be only dis-allowed in World-Cup events, Worlds and Olympics? What about Masters Worlds?
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#2
http://sailingforums.com/threads/introducing-the-new-official-class-sail.20451/page-6#post-147470

The bi-radial Standard sail is not legal, period. It means that it isn't allowed in any Laser racing. Whenever it's legalized, then it will be legal for everything everywhere. The class rules are universal, not something that's applied on a regatta-by-regatta basis.

The legalization date is still completely open for speculation. Nothing is likely to happen before the Olympics next year, and even after that it's all dependent on the outcome of the Kirby vs. LP court case.
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#3
I agree that currently (!) there is no radial full rig sail that is legal.

PS: Is the 'new design' sail with the blue Laser symbol still available?
 
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LaLi

Well-Known Member
#6
"The new sail will be priced at approximaltey $1000.00 + numbers + letters and will eligible to be used at the Nationals this year and all events except ISAF SWC and the games next year...."

Sounds like complete rubbish.
For this to be real, the ILCA would have to make a totally unprecedented decision, one which the ISAF would be highly unlikely to approve. And LP and PSA would have to be friends again. Etc. I don't see any of this happening.

What is NB Sailsports' source?
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#8
West Coast sailing in the USA appear to be selling them also, but are marketing them as a training sail and not class legal. My gut feel is that these new sails do not have the laser button on them and they are not class legal and without that, they never will be class legal. However the sail manufacturer has been sitting on a huge number of sails waiting for the Kirby issue to be solved and has now decided to sell this stock and the suppliers are happy to take them off their hands, class legal or not.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#9
Ok, found similar rumours elsewhere... about a legalization date in the very near future, with an exclusion of everything leading to, and including, the Olympics. If this is true, then NB is possibly breaking some secrecy contract, as no other official or semi-official source (such as the ILCA, the builders, or other dealers) is saying anything.

I sure want the new sail, too, but this is not the way to do it. I actually hope it's not true.

West Coast sailing in the USA appear to be selling them also, but are marketing them as a training sail and not class legal. My gut feel is that these new sails do not have the laser button on them and they are not class legal and without that, they never will be class legal.
That's what sailboats.co.uk has been doing as well, since the beginning of this year. The bi-radials they sell have only the LP logo at the tack, and a blue class insignia to distinguish them from the future legal sails.
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#10
I was hoping that the blue insignia was actually something to help identify the full rig from the radial and 4.7. From a race officer point of view it would make it easier to identify the 3 rigs by 3 different coloured insignia. I suggested this to Jeff well over a decade ago.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#12
I am in the middle of doing business with sailboats.co.uk and I asked them straight out. They said they've also heard the rumour... and that it's not the first time! Same with the carbon topmast, lots of talk over the years but nothing has materialized.
So there's nothing to see here. At least yet.
 
Thread starter #13
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LaLi

Well-Known Member
#15
Noticed it earlier today.
Damn.
Trying to figure out if this is (as it somehow sounds) an Aussie-only, or more specifically, a PSA-territory thing.
 

torrid

Just sailing
#16
I contacted APS, who then called LP. They were supposed to go public with the info October 1st, but apparently PSA couldn't wait that long. Still some sort of PR game going on I guess. Sounds like LP is still trying to put together a game plan for distribution. Maybe Santy Claus will bring you a crisp new Laser sail for Christmas.

My question is will this new design sail be legal to race with on a Kirby Torch?
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#17
Ok, it's official now... will be all over the media soon. (Just checked out yachtsandyachting.com.)
  • Legal, globally, from November 1, 2015
  • Exceptions will be the 2016 Olympics and all qualifying regattas for those games
  • No word on the carbon topmast.
So I was wrong. But it is an exceptional decision, and ISAF probably didn't like it...
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#19
I contacted APS, who then called LP. They were supposed to go public with the info October 1st, but apparently PSA couldn't wait that long. Still some sort of PR game going on I guess. Sounds like LP is still trying to put together a game plan for distribution. Maybe Santy Claus will bring you a crisp new Laser sail for Christmas.

My question is will this new design sail be legal to race with on a Kirby Torch?
Remember that for most Australian sailing clubs, we have just started our (summer) sailing season, with our National championships immediately after Xmas and many people would be in the process of purchasing new sails for the season. For most LP customers, October is the end of the season.
 

torrid

Just sailing
#20
Definite thanks go to the ILCA for finally getting this through. The members have been asking for it, and I know Tracy and company have been working on it for years amid....other distractions. I would imagine the term "herding cats" is applicable.

Now that the sail issue is finally settled, it makes me wonder about the status of Kirby's lawsuit. It could be dead, or maybe there was a settlement of sorts reached.
 
#21
It looks like you can pre order the sail from West Coast sailing for 530.oo dollars. I used the new practice for 6 months and the shape is still great. It's not any faster but it's going to last a lot longer.
 
#22
I heard rumours from a reputable source in the USA that there was an out of court settlement, hence ILCA are moving on the outstanding Mk2 sail and the composite topmast will follow shortly.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#23
Definite thanks go to the ILCA for finally getting this through. The members have been asking for it, and I know Tracy and company have been working on it for years amid....other distractions.
It's kind of fundamentally stupid to have different equipment rules for different regattas, but yes, maybe this was the least bad way to do this after all. Time will tell. Decisions like this should however be published immediately, to avoid the rumours and speculation.
Now that the sail issue is finally settled, it makes me wonder about the status of Kirby's lawsuit. It could be dead, or maybe there was a settlement of sorts reached.
I heard rumours from a reputable source in the USA that there was an out of court settlement...
Of course, a settlement would be nice, but this sail business doesn't necessarily mean more (as someone somewhere else speculated/knew) than that PSA is out of the court case.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#24
To answer the original poster's question more specifically, my understanding is that only the following regattas (in addition to the Olympics) after November 1 don't allow the new sail:
  • African Olympic qualification regatta, Algiers, December 4 - 11
  • Sail Melbourne, December 6 - 13
  • Sailing World Cup Miami, January 25 - 30
  • ASAF Cup, Abu Dhabi, March 16 - 23
  • Trofeo Princesa Sofia, Palma de Mallorca, March 25 - April 2
These are the only country qualifier events left for the Standard class.
The Standard Worlds and Masters Worlds are in Mexico in May. I don't know why the new sail wouldn't be allowed there, but if not, it will be stated in the NORs.
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#25
It looks like you can pre order the sail from West Coast sailing for 530.oo dollars. I used the new practice for 6 months and the shape is still great. It's not any faster but it's going to last a lot longer.
Battens will be another $64. It looks like these battens are different from the current (Mark I) ones ($32 at APS).
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#27
European dealers offering the Mark II are asking EUR 550 or a bit less, plus 40something euros for the battens. I don't think it's a bad price at all, I was expecting something closer to 700... After all, a Europe dinghy sail (which is essentially the same size) from my local sailmaker (WB-Sails) has a very similar cut and comparable sailcloth, and it costs a thousand euros. (And no one's complaining.)
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#31
That's a significant change from what was normal practice for decades and quite a big cost saving.
 
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#32
I think the last standard worlds for which sails were supplied was 2011 ISAF Worlds in Perth although competitors had to supply their own sails for the 2010 worlds in Hayling Island before that.

It may be a cost saving for the organisers, but I do not think it is a good thing as it moves away from the Laser concept of being the best sailor not the best equipment. Before the 2010 worlds their was an interview with one of the top sailors saying he was sorting out which sail best suited the spars he had been supplied with.
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#33
Please note that the posts related to the performance of the new Mark II sail have been moved to the Laser Talk forum.
The title of the new thread is Mark II Standard Sail
 
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torrid

Just sailing
#34
Fully released, and many are already sailing with them. Don't know what sort of inventory the dealers have as there was a mad rush when they first came out.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#36
Noticed this story last week but it didn't seem worthwhile to comment on as there was zero corroborating information. "Sailing Illustrated" seems to be Tom Ehman's private megaphone; I've met him a couple of times and think he is a good instructor, but I wouldn't trust everything he says. "Fake news" indeed.

_
 
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