Need help with rudder compatibility please!

C

Clarineter

New Member
Hi everyone,

I have a Super Porpoise that lacks the entire rudder assembly. The boat does have 4 posts in the back where a gudgeon bracket would normally go. Is it safe for me to use Sunfish rudder parts on this boat- are they compatible? Or do I need to "jury-rig" something instead?

If I can use Sunfish parts I will use a full Sunfish rudder that's been offered to me by a friend. Otherwise I guess I get to "get creative" at the local hardware store.

Thanks!
 
you might have to "jury-rig" it to get a Sunfish rudder to work. the Super Porpoise rudder is quite different than a Sunfish one, but you might have a really hard time finding parts anymore.

if you don't have the bracket on the back at all, you could try to somehow mount a Sunfish gudgeon bracket, but there is that edge lip that goes around the whole perimeter of the Super Porpoise that could get in the way. and if you were to mount the Sunfish bracket below that lip, then I think the tiller extension would sit too low, and would hit the deck of the Super Porpoise and become ineffective.

good luck!
 
That's what I was afraid of. The boat looks like someone tried very hard to put a Sunfish bracket on it despite the railing, and all they did was damage the hull. Would it be possible for you to send me pictures of your rudder and how it attaches to your Porpoise? I confess I have spent many hours on your blog, but I could use some additional pics (and maybe some dimensions, etc.) in order to figure out how to recreate the rudder. I could also stand rough dimensions on your daggerboard as well, if you're willing to share (please please?).

Many thanks! I've put so much time into repairing the hull on this boat that I don't want to give up on it now. :)
 
yikes, well my SP is hanging on its side in my garage, and the rudder is still a bit in pieces from me (very slowly) trying to refinish it.

the bracket and rudder head are VERY different from a Sunfish rudder. the Super Porpoise rudder also has the large round lead weight in it, to keep the rudder down in the water. it doesn't have the kick-up spring system like a Sunfish.

I'll try to maybe get some information for you over the weekend, with pictures and/or dimensions.
 
tag said:
yikes, well my SP is hanging on its side in my garage, and the rudder is still a bit in pieces from me (very slowly) trying to refinish it.

the bracket and rudder head are VERY different from a Sunfish rudder. the Super Porpoise rudder also has the large round lead weight in it, to keep the rudder down in the water. it doesn't have the kick-up spring system like a Sunfish.

I'll try to maybe get some information for you over the weekend, with pictures and/or dimensions.
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Oh my gosh, you are the nicest person ever- thank you thank you thank you! No rush on things- my boat repairs are a "weekend warrior" activity at best. I have the tiller with an extension, but no hardware to connect it to the rudder. I have the original rudder, minus where the weight & end of the rudder rotted/fell off. The person I bought the boat from attempted to recreate the rudder blade, but they only got as far as shaping the blade & carving out a hole for the weight before giving up. There's no other hardware or parts, although I have 4 screw posts sticking out of the back of the boat, along with 2 smaller screws pointing downwards through the rail over where the 4 screw posts are. I'll try to take some pictures of this tomorrow. This boat has definitely been a fixer-upper, but I confess to enjoying every screwy, frustrating moment of it. :)
 
here's a picture I found on the Yahoo Sunfish Sailor Group of the Super Porpoise rudder.
super porpoise rudder.jpg


you can see the rudder head is quite different, and the tiller is thus high enough to clear the deck.
 
okay, so I sort of put the rudder together and snapped a few photos of the whole setup. this is with the rudder head mounted to the gudgeon on the back of the Super Porpoise. my rudder is rotated up (I didn't have enough room to drop it down like the picture in my previous post above). as you can see, the rudder head is quite a bit higher to get the tiller above the deck.

IMG_0965.jpg


here is a picture of the gudgeon bracket on the Super Porpoise without the rudder in place.
IMG_0967.jpg


and here is a picture of the whole rudder assembly laying on the floor.
IMG_0968.jpg


I think if you don't have the necessary hardware (or access to get replacements), it is going to be tough to retrofit this boat.
 
tag said:
okay, so I sort of put the rudder together and snapped a few photos of the whole setup. this is with the rudder head mounted to the gudgeon on the back of the Super Porpoise. my rudder is rotated up (I didn't have enough room to drop it down like the picture in my previous post above). as you can see, the rudder head is quite a bit higher to get the tiller above the deck.

View attachment 10048

here is a picture of the gudgeon bracket on the Super Porpoise without the rudder in place.
View attachment 10049

and here is a picture of the whole rudder assembly laying on the floor.
View attachment 10050

I think if you don't have the necessary hardware (or access to get replacements), it is going to be tough to retrofit this boat.
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Thanks for the pics- it's extremely helpful. Rather odd (and possibly dumb) question: how far from the hull of the boat do the gudgeon tips stick out?
 
Clarineter said:
Thanks for the pics- it's extremely helpful. Rather odd (and possibly dumb) question: how far from the hull of the boat do the gudgeon tips stick out?
Click to expand...
It is 2 1/4" to the outer tip of the gudgeon bracket. It is about 1 7/8" to the centerline of the hole for the pin.
 
Recycling yards will have mountains of thick-enough aluminum and stainless-steel sheets. Buy a couple of pieces, and "form" it to a "C" shape on a metal-brake. Drill holes. ;)

For the nearest "metal-brake", a muffler shop might be able to head you in the right direction. (Which might be as close as the nearest High School!) :)
 
Light and Variable Winds said:
Recycling yards will have mountains of thick-enough aluminum and stainless-steel sheets. Buy a couple of pieces, and "form" it to a "C" shape on a metal-brake. Drill holes. ;)

For the nearest "metal-brake", a muffler shop might be able to head you in the right direction. (Which might be as close as the nearest High School!) :)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice! I figured I would have to machine something to fit, although a colleague suggested attaching a small (well-varnished of course) board to the back to raise the gudgeon area up to the point that a newly attached bracket would not bother the rub rail. The biggest issue is that a prior owner of this boat tried to force it to accept a Sunfish system, which has resulted in a mess of bolts sticking out and nasty cut through part of the rail. Meh. As the hull needs a good cleaning and some scratch repair, I may mull over the rudder a bit more while I spend quality time with some Loctite.

Any advice on what type/brand of paint to use? The boat will not be stored in water (it's a "garage baby"), and I've heard everything from only using marine paint to using Rustoleum, auto, and/or garage paint.
 
001.JPG002.JPG So this is what I'm dealing with- should I remove the bolts or leave them in and attach something onto them? The pics my2fish kindly posted do not seem to suggest a bolt arrangement like this....
 
Seeing the pictures...

Now I like the idea of mounting the bracket on a well-varnished board. It's a quick fix until the integrity of those four bolts can be determined.

My Porpoise-II also had a wood board there, but the board split from an unknown impact. (You might use a scrap of marine plywood.) Screws were replaced by S/S bolts through a new inspection port. I positioned the new port so access to the transom was at exactly one-forearm's-length.P6080026-001.JPG
 
before I used trex, I would make one out of resin, or even try and find a block of Delrin, or Nylon, should be easy to find on the net and would be very stable
 
Light and Variable Winds said:
Seeing the pictures...

Now I like the idea of mounting the bracket on a well-varnished board. It's a quick fix until the integrity of those four bolts can be determined.

My Porpoise-II also had a wood board there, but the board split from an unknown impact. (You might use a scrap of marine plywood.) Screws were replaced by S/S bolts through a new inspection port. I positioned the new port so access to the transom was at exactly one-forearm's-length.View attachment 10055
Click to expand...
I just checked the bolts and they are firmly implanted through the hull. The hull seems to be solid in this area, and it appears that whoever installed those bolts wasn't messing around- they won't budge. In fact, I'm afraid that if I try to remove them it may shred that area entirely. However, one of the bolts wasn't screwed through to the same length as the other three. Ugh... I like solving problems, but this one is really dozy.

What do you think: put in the inspection port and try to remove the bolts, or cross my fingers and install a plate/board/something over them?
 
Those "bolts" may be "studs": not a perfect repair, but a decent repair. ;) The studs were likely threaded through the fiberglass transom, including the wood brace behind, and installed with a good smearing of epoxy. With so little left of the sailing season—and requiring only a hour to prepare a piece of wood/delrin—I'd "cross my fingers". :cool:

The mounting studs are already in place, and you can drill generous-sized holes in the wood to line up the studs. Tighten every nut, saw off the too-long stud, and round-off the cut end with a hand file or small grinding wheel. Satisfy yourself that the existing "bolts" are substantial enough before commiting yourself to extra work that can be postposed until Winter. :)
 
Light and Variable Winds said:
Those "bolts" may be "studs": not a perfect repair, but a decent repair. ;) The studs were likely threaded through the fiberglass transom, including the wood brace behind, and installed with a good smearing of epoxy. With so little left of the sailing season—and requiring only a hour to prepare a piece of wood/delrin—I'd "cross my fingers". :cool:

The mounting studs are already in place, and you can drill generous-sized holes in the wood to line up the studs. Tighten every nut, saw off the too-long stud, and round-off the cut end with a hand file or small grinding wheel. Satisfy yourself that the existing "bolts" are substantial enough before commiting yourself to extra work that can be postposed until Winter. :)
Click to expand...
I wish it was that simple. This poor boat has had a very hard life, and her hull is a mess. I need to fill in various chips and gouges, and the whole thing needs a need paint job. At this point I'm hoping to get her ready to sail by next spring. :(
 
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