Intensity Sails

i'm tired of laser sailors whining about the cost of everything.
Not everything...although some of the plastic parts are pretty expensive for what they are too...just sails.

Furthermore, I don't want to come off pompous at all, i'm just trying to show that there is some serious misguided anger here over things that people can and can not control. Don't worry, i won't waste any more breath.
I apologize if I sounded angry. I am not angry. We are just debating things here.

I guess i've been outed eh? well, good luck to you guys. I hope you all know most of this has been in Jest. Sailchris, good use of the internets. I've been trying to figure out who you were for a while.
If you figure it out, send me an email.
 
Is there a way of measuring a sail, that does not involve subjective elements, to tell when a sail is "blown out". A simple measurement or formula. Line in the sand ...Sail ok or ...sail should be replaced.
 
R

Ross B

Guest
No, you don't, Ross. Anyone can come in here as a And what is &ouchebaggery?

Also, if it's true that excollegsailor is a Vanguard rep, I'm glad to see it and welcome him.
Merrily add a "d" instead of the "&" and you'll get it.

actually here: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=douchebaggery

I think it would be great to have a rep from Vanguard on here, just needs to be a bit nicer, and remember who you're representing. Word gets out who you are, and Vanguard might not think highly of you.


Furthermore, I don't want to come off pompous at all, i'm just trying to show that there is some serious misguided anger here over things that people can and can not control. Don't worry, i won't waste any more breath.
Keep workin on that, your still coming off as a tad bit pompous. No one is really "angry" over the sails, we realize it's all we have right now, and we have to deal with it. We just want a better value for our money.
 
And, of course, it would be best if any change to the sail did not result in noticeable gain in performance. But, just to be clear, I am NOT saying that there are any currently planned changes, or that there will be any changes to the sail, only that it is on ILCA's radar screen to investigate possibilities.
I agree - important any new design sail is of the same performance as an existing design (new "new" vs new "existing"). Thus no performance gain to purchasing. Rather a longevity gain. My own experience of hi-tech sails is that they last no longer than but tend to fall apart before they lose their shape. Thus, even though your sail might need replacing just as often, until it finally died it would still have a competitive shape. Would effectively put people on a more even basis which is a major aspect to the Laser itself.

One aspect to new sails improving performance is that the helm cannot sit there being angry at this terrible sail letting him down (when it has nothing to do with that sail). Means you can start to recognise your own failures and cannot blame anything else. If you are not pointing then it is your fault and nothing else's. Psychological (and it gets me just as much as others).


In general, I'm not in favor of a radical change to the Laser sail (and perhaps mast), that is going to immediately obsolete 190,000 boats, without a significant amount of research and discussion (and look at what happened with the Byte class for an example of rushing something like this through). Besides, if you are going to make such a radical change, that will require everyone racing to upgrade, then at some point you ought to start asking "what else should we be changing?" which, ultimately, means you ought to be designing a new boat. Well... good luck with that!
I think (hope) that most people recognise the Laser and expect that for a large percentage the strict one design aspect is part of the appeal of the class. My feel for this thread is that it is more about people wanting to reduce their running costs. OK you get the occasional person who wants to start changing everything and make a new boat but I'm confidant the majority prefer the strict one-design aspect.


Footnote:
Personally I cannot see how the number of posts somebody has made affects how valid their opinions are ?

Ian
 
LOL :D I like definiton #4 but #7 is even better! :D


I think it would be great to have a rep from Vanguard on here, just needs to be a bit nicer, and remember who you're representing. Word gets out who you are, and Vanguard might not think highly of you.
Strange that Vanguard can have a rep here and be welcome but another company's reps posts are being deleted left right and centre. LOL


Keep workin on that, your still coming off as a tad bit pompous. No one is really "angry" over the sails, we realize it's all we have right now, and we have to deal with it. We just want a better value for our money.

I don't find it pompous. Everyone speaks differently, and even if it were I'd just laugh. :D
 

Merrily

Administrator
Strange that Vanguard can have a rep here and be welcome but another company's reps posts are being deleted left right and centre. LOL
It's not strange at all. Not all of StylusCentral's posts are deleted, only the ones where he is posting for free advertising. I think that's a bit greedy when this whole thread is entitled for his company and he's getting a plenty big freebie. Also, I only just learned that excollegesailor is a Vanguard rep along with you. Do you think that it's appropriate that I delete his posts? I don't think so.

Well, I had to ask on that definition. It's inappropriate here, Ross.

Everybody just stay calm. It's an interesting thread otherwise.

BTW, Sailchris, you outed excollegesailor. Who are you?
 
R

Ross B

Guest
Well, I had to ask on that definition. It's inappropriate here, Ross.

That's why I didn't fully spell the word, and only provided a link to the definition, and didn't type it out, so one had to work to get it. Surly not actually saying it and just alluding to it is fine for the Powers At Be here?

What I said, or didn't say for that matter, can't be any worse than what went on here?:http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=7428
 

Merrily

Administrator
That's why I didn't fully spell the word, and only provided a link to the definition, and didn't type it out, so one had to work to get it. Surly not actually saying it and just alluding to it is fine for the Powers At Be here?

What I said, or didn't say for that matter, can't be any worse than what went on here?:http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=7428
I'd rather you didn't allude to it at all, especially in a serious thread. No need for name calling. We are going for civilized discourse here. The one that you showed a link for is has silly in the title, after all. BTW, you did spell it out in the definition link, not subtle.
 
R

Ross B

Guest
I'd rather you didn't allude to it at all, especially in a serious thread. No need for name calling. We are going for civilized discourse here. The one that you showed a link for is has silly in the title, after all. BTW, you did spell it out in the definition link, not subtle.
Now we're just pickin bones here, as I did not specifically write the URL for the page, as it was provided by the site. But I get your general idea, and I think it's just time we move on from this little shindig we're having here. Did I mention I love you Merrily and all you do for us here?:D
 

Merrily

Administrator
Now we're just pickin bones here, as I did not specifically write the URL for the page, as it was provided by the site. But I get your general idea, and I think it's just time we move on from this little shindig we're having here. Did I mention I love you Merrily and all you do for us here?:D
Take some responsibility for putting the URL on this site, and we'll get on well. I'm glad you love me, Ross. :rolleyes:
 
Great debate. And fine by me that a Vanguard Customer Service Rep is participating.

However, I do think it would be a good idea if, when we are discussing issues in which certain companies have a vested interest, the representatives of those companies should identify their affiliation. IMHO it should actually be an official policy of a forum like this.

By the way, is said rep speaking officially on behalf of his/her employer or is he/she just expressing a personal view (albeit inevitably biased because of his/her employment)?

Also, I happen to know that another poster on this forum (who occasionally gets involved in defending the status quo of the current Laser sail commercial arrangements) is actually an employee of North Sails. I'm not going to out him. Just think that folk should out of common decency declare their affiliations when it's a subject that affects their employment or income.

I am not employed by North Sails or Hyde Sails or Vanguard or PSE. Actually, I am unemployed. My opinions have no weight according to Merrily. Over on the Sunfish forum they say I am clueless. Oh well. At least I only speak for myself.
 
It's not strange at all. Not all of StylusCentral's posts are deleted, only the ones where he is posting for free advertising. I think that's a bit greedy when this whole thread is entitled for his company and he's getting a plenty big freebie. Also, I only just learned that excollegesailor is a Vanguard rep along with you. Do you think that it's appropriate that I delete his posts? I don't think so.

Well, I had to ask on that definition. It's inappropriate here, Ross.

Everybody just stay calm. It's an interesting thread otherwise.

BTW, Sailchris, you outed excollegesailor. Who are you?
LOL. Rob_B started this thread, how is it started for StylusCentral's benefit? Conspiracy theories anyone? LOL

No wait, Rob-B must be undercover agent for intensity sails! The Horror of it all! LOL

Guess what, sailchris knows of people in business who sell laser related stuff, so do I, so does Ross... Delete us all, our opinions are free advertising!

You've never been an impartial moderator, but this kind of thing is pretty funny.
 
R

Ross B

Guest
Guess what, sailchris knows of people in business who sell laser related stuff, so do I, so does Ross... Delete us all, our opinions are free advertising!

You've never been an impartial moderator, but this kind of thing is pretty funny.
Yea, I know too many people in high places, boo hooo me:(

and now I'm sponsored, so I'm incredibly biased, the horror!!
 

Merrily

Administrator
LOL. Rob_B started this thread, how is it started for StylusCentral's benefit? Conspiracy theories anyone? LOL

No wait, Rob-B must be undercover agent for intensity sails! The Horror of it all! LOL

Guess what, sailchris knows of people in business who sell laser related stuff, so do I, so does Ross... Delete us all, our opinions are free advertising!

You've never been an impartial moderator, but this kind of thing is pretty funny.
I don't claim to be or want to be an impartial moderator.

I'm glad you are enjoying yourself. I realize that StylusCentral aka Intensity Sails did not start this thread. He's still getting plenty of free advertising from it, and I'd like it if he'd show some appreciation by not wasting my time by posting illegal ads.
 
BTW, Sailchris, you outed excollegesailor. Who are you?
Unlike excollegesailor, I don't list my real name in my public profile, but if you look hard enough you'll find out who I am. Plus, I only "outed" his relevant employment background, which is public information. My employment background is irrelevant except, perhaps, in the threads where I have made oblique references to it.

I also find it strange that you removed StylusCentral's postings of price listings that were cited solely as evidence of relative pricing of sails, but then left my direct links to the Intensity sails webpage. Neither of these posts were commercially motivated when taken in the context of this thread. I don't think the terms of service of this forum limit commercial postings (except for spam, which this was not), so please follow the TOS and be consistent in your enforcement
 
I realize that StylusCentral aka Intensity Sails did not start this thread. He's still getting plenty of free advertising from it, and I'd like it if he'd show some appreciation by not wasting my time by posting illegal ads.
To be fair to Mr Intensity, I don't think his post was motivated by a desire to get free advertising. He was simply pointing out that the comparison of prices between Laser sails and other class sails was somewhat flawed because all those other classes also have sailmakers who pass on high markups to their customers.

Mr Intensity was pointing out that it is possible to sell sails for Lasers, 420s, JY15s whatever at around $200 instead of at over $500. As such I thought it was an important contribution to this debate and I am sorry that our official administrator felt fit to delete it.

If Mr Intensity has found a way to make inexpensive durable sails for all those classes (including the Laser) then ILCA should hire him as a consultant to work out how to move to a situation where we have class-legal inexpensive durable sails.

I am not employed by Mr Intensity though I have used some of his products. I am officially clueless and my opinion has no weight.
 
It's not strange at all. Not all of StylusCentral's posts are deleted, only the ones where he is posting for free advertising. I think that's a bit greedy when this whole thread is entitled for his company and he's getting a plenty big freebie.
I think this comment is defamatory and also libelous, and therefore in violation of the TOS.
 
R

Ross B

Guest
I think this comment is defamatory and also libelous, and therefore in violation of the TOS.
You think thats bad? Look at #3 on the TOS. So much for free speech.... *checks flight plans to China....*

"3. TLF is dedicated to allowing free speech. However, Spamming or transmitting content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy or confidentiality or copyrights, hateful, or racially,
ethnically objectionable is not permitted and can result in the suspension or deletion of your membership in TLF. The severity of the measures will be determined on a case by case basis. Any specific rules of enforcement will be made public before they are applied."


And thankfully #5 is applied pretty loosely....

"5. Please keep the discussion on topic within its thread. For example, do not post about mast step repairs in a thread about frostbiting. TLF reserves the right to move or delete off topic comments. To Register and post on TLF you must include your real name and a valid email address. TLF reserves the right to change this document at any time."
 

Bradley

Administrator
Staff member
Come on Folks, Let's not be ridiculous here please. There are several issues at play and I would like to address all of them.

First, posts will be deleted, at our discretion, that lean on the side of promoting a product that is not a paid sponsor of the forum when the post(s) are made by the marketer of that product.

Second, post count doesn't limit anyone from offering constructive comments. I find Ross B.'s post to be very inappropriate, not because the word was obscene but because it was directed towards a single member of the forum.

Third, The TOS are what they are. Obviously, there is a lot of leeway in their interpretation, but they were written that way on purpose. Every effort is made to avoid deleting posts except when absolutely necessary. Luckily, for many of you, we don't reject every member who signs up without a name or one that doesn't appear to be real. We could implement a system like GMail and many others use that require one to authenticate themselves to their telephone number via text message but I don't find it to be worth the cost or effort.

Fourth, this came up mostly in the very early stages of this thread, but comments on class legal sails are NOT limited to class members. This is a public discussion forum separately held from any class body and thus all are invited to participate in any discussion.

Finally, Old Geezer, at least the folks over at TSF got you perfectly figured out! :p

Lets get this discussion back on topic now please.

Best Regards,
 
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