EurILCA recommends 'NO' on the 'Name Change' rule change

thieuster

Active Member
Thread starter #1
This afternoon (European time) on the EurILCA FB-page. Not something that amazes me after speaking with the Dutch participants of the Master in Roses! However, I am amazed that ILCA's policy is openly questioned!

Somehow, I think that Europe and the ROW(?) have a different opinion.

Looking at the Roses video again, I think that the 'townhall meeting' didn't work for this audience...

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LaLi

Well-Known Member
#2
Oh my. So much intentional misunderstanding and bad will (and some bad English, too). "The 2 Europeans sitting at the World council" are Jean-Luc and Heini. I'm getting the impression that they feel walked over and therefore oppose whatever the rest of the World Council proposes. They're trying to turn this into a Europe vs Rest of the World thing, like LP has for some time now. Divide and conquer.

I'll contact my national Laser association tomorrow and find out what they're thinking about this.

_
 
#3
I"m actually rather annoyed by the voting advice pushed upon me by the dutch laser class. I'm with ilca on this. If euilca has a problem they should solve this with ilca where they are represented... Not like this, very unmature.
 

thieuster

Active Member
Thread starter #6
Indeed: there's a difference between EU and the ROW, supply-wise. Which I found out after joining this website, btw.

When ILCA asks an 100k annual fee (source: the blog) then things will go pearshaped as well. There's a market for 2000 boats every year. Spread over several suppliers? That will raise the price per hull considerably.

ILCA intends also to require steep fees from builders - US$100,000 annually, according to ILCA president Tracy Usher. This is down the US$200,000 that were initially considered.
/QUOTE]
 
#7
Tracy posted on SA with some clarification on what's going on, which is where the blog got their 100K info but neglected to include the full info: ILCA gives LPE the boot... seeking new Laser builder

Note that one of the objectives was to “favor fewer larger builders over many smaller builders” to achieve economies of scale. Generally speaking (particularly excepting PSJ where Takao says building Lasers is more a labor of love than a money making adventure), experience has shown that builders producing fewer than around 200 boats per year have struggled to maintain viable operations. Further, World Sailing specifically mentioned concern about small “boutique builders” who exist regardless of cost solely to produce boats for a limited clientele (where one worries they may have incentive to try to focus on builder “better” boats). To address these issues the original proposal contained a minimum royalty payment (to go into the pool to be distributed to the builders) of $200,000 with specific provisions to allow a candidate builder to apply for an exception for valid reasons. Obviously, this can also be seen as a barrier to entry, the most recent document lowered this to $100,000. One could equally argue there should be no minimum and one should simply let the market forces do their work. Personally, I’m in agreement with the latter, I believe the Optimist model shows what will eventually happen - while they list over 30 builders on their website their report to World Sailing this past January showed only 3 active builders with one in China, one in South America and one in Europe, all producing about 2400 boats/year.
 

thieuster

Active Member
Thread starter #9
Not true about the optimist builders: at least 4 more European builders: SRB (Hungary), Devoti (also Finn and D20), Faccenda (Italy, also 420 builders) and Dutch builder Van Wettum. All building small numbers. Van Wettums' boats are very popular here, selling 20 - 30 boats each year, in a limited market of 50 - 60 new boats/year. Which is about 1/2 the amount of annually sold oppi's here. So, there are more flavours to choose from. Smaller companies cán exist without support. That has probably to do with the fact that oppi's were intentionally designed as a DIY boat. The RDYA even sells building plans for DIY optimists and is will to measure them for a fixed fee, In return, one gets a World Sailing plaque; no matter if it's wood or polyester.

Same goes for equipment: daggerboard, rudders, masts and sails. All you need to do is comply with the class rules. Most 'aftermarket' manufacturers have their products built in the same factory on the same production line. Same goes for Laser parts.

IODA (ILCA's optimist counterpart) doesn't need to put its stamp on every part. During measurement sessions, things will become clear: legal or non-legal within class rules. Although a lot of manufacturers advertise with 'IODA approved'.

It's interesting to see that Windesign (Laser aftermarket parts) and Optiparts (Optimist parts) are the same company. Optiparts is the world leader in class legal (non-OEM) optimist parts, where same company Windesign is considered to build non-class legal(...) parts 'only useable for club racing'... because ILCA will not allow Windesign's cheaper parts next to the more expensive, ILCA approved parts.

It was perhaps not wise to compare IODA's 'modus operandi' with ILCA's.

Having said that: I know that two Dutch entrepreneurs (marine and yachting business) had a lengthy conversation about starting fabricating Lasers. Apart from the fees, it's very, very expensive, labour-intensive and time-consuming to obtain/design/produce the moulds for the hull. You need to produce quite a large number over a number of years and a lot of boats to reach a break-even point.

When ILCA is really interested in helping new producers, they should come clear on how to support potential producers with that start-up problem.

M.
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#10
Looking at what the ILCA has published in the preamble to the vote, it would appear that a no vote will likely result in the Laser losing Olympic status. The current dispute between builders and the ILCA, is likely in my opinion to all parties not agreeing with the World Sailing requirements. LP has been holding the ILCA to ransom for nearly the last decade and if they see that they won't be able to keep building, they have the ability to take the class down with them. Yes, the vote will make it easier to the ILCA to get around the problems with LP, but the vote is really about the requirements of World Sailing for all Olympic classes.
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#11
It's interesting to see that Windesign (Laser aftermarket parts) and Optiparts (Optimist parts) are the same company. Optiparts is the world leader in class legal (non-OEM) optimist parts, where same company Windesign is considered to build non-class legal(...) parts 'only useable for club racing'... because ILCA will not allow Windesign's cheaper parts next to the more expensive, ILCA approved parts.
Just for the record, non authentic lasers parts are not "useable for club racing" when racing a laser. The ILCA and the districts around the world run association events and can easily control the entries at those events by saying the must be laser compliant. But at club, clubs can permit any class to sail, they don't need to specify that the class is a laser. Some clubs specifically state they sail lasers, that the boats will be class legal, even saying those sailing them will be members of the ILCA. Basically If your boats that looks like a laser is not class legal, it is not a laser and you are not sailing a laser.
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
#12
Just for the record, non authentic lasers parts are not "useable for club racing" when racing a laser. The ILCA and the districts around the world run association events and can easily control the entries at those events by saying the must be laser compliant. But at club, clubs can permit any class to sail, they don't need to specify that the class is a laser. Some clubs specifically state they sail lasers, that the boats will be class legal, even saying those sailing them will be members of the ILCA. Basically If your boats that looks like a laser is not class legal, it is not a laser and you are not sailing a laser.
True- but here in the US, (at least the southern region) we've dropped the "class approved equipment only" rule for events under the GP status. The result has been MORE people sailing Lasers because they have access to parts to keep the boats going. As we are under LP supply the process of getting class approved parts has become very labor intensive.
 
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