Different Rudder head

Beekeeper

Active Member
I picked up an older sunfish today at a Boy Scout camp in New Hartford Conn. possibly from the late 60's the plate with the hull # on the deck was removed but it looks exactly like the "66" that I have. They gave me five old style rudder tiller set ups and one had a hardware set up I've never seen before, holding the rudder blade to the thingy that snaps onto the transom. I think thingy is an official term after seeing Signal Charlie " thingy and then unthingy" a clip on the Catfish, Smedley. Anyway, I got a picture of it, I think I'm going to clean it up, sand any varnish the newer style blade and mount it on my 1966 sunfish that just got a new blue paint job.
 

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Great looking boat! If that is original gelcoat, the boat is a 1960-1967 model. Not sure I've seen that shade of green though.

The extra bronze on that rudder head is an ALCORT part, it showed up around 1970ish as an attempt to reinforce the rudder head and prevent the vertical grain splits common with the Old Style rudder. AMF took over ALCORT and they switched to the New Style rudder system in 1971. That head that you have is the best one made for the Old Style system.

How many boats do you have now? :)
 
Thanks Clark, that bronze rudder head is definitely a keeper along with the near perfect blade attached to it. It surely helps with the splits as the other four old style rudders I got with it all have some level of splits in the blades. I'll put up a picture of it mounted on my "66" fish when I get her back together, the paint job came out great, Totalboat Largo blue. I have three sunfish, one phantom, one windflite, one Alcort Catfish, one MFG copperhead, one 14ft vagabond same as the hobie holder, one 16ft Mistral same design as the wayfarer, one 24 pontoon boat, one 16ft Malahini a mahogany runabout a Glen-L design that I built and various other personal watercraft. Good thing I have some acreage. My wife and I are finishing up a new sail for the Catfish.
 

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Beekeeper, you’ve got me beat! I’ve seen that Sunfish you picked up since it’s right on my lake! I was tempted by it but I don’t have the acreage you’ve got so my count right now is down to 9 (sailboats).
Camp Worcoeman has been a boy scout camp for over 100 years. I probably flirted with a young scout sailing that boat when I was a kid at the camp directly across the lake! We had instructional boating, then ‘Boats Out’ every evening after dinner that was pure fun.
Looks like you got a great deal!
 
Beekeeper,

Some folks refer to your rudder as the hybrid design as it still attaches to the pre-1972] bronze fittings on the deck and keel of the hull but sports a rudder blade similar to the the post-1972 shape. Also, the beefy bronze top fitting on the wood rudder blade all but eliminates the cracking problem that the earlier blades often sustained. The only downside is the added weight of the rudder fittings.

Alan Glos
Cazenovia, NY
 
Breeze Bender, I'm sure you probably have seen that boat on your lake, I got it at Camp Sequassen, they had four sunfish and I think four Zuma's. I got the last, and likely, oldest sunfish left along with the spare rudders. The caretaker, Dave said he hasn't had any bites on the zuma's, they're asking $450, I said if you'd let one go to me at the same price $250, as the sunfish, I'll take it now, but he didn't bite. What a beautiful area and yesterday was blustery, 45 degrees and spitting ice pellets when we were there. Alan, to me I consider that rudder that I can put on my other boat the best part of this deal, now to try and sell some of the fittings off those udder rudders.
 
The Catfish sail looks great! Did y'all find a kit or make it yourself?

How do you keep track of your boats? We use a "Marine Traffic Control" strip system, our version of what the Old School Air Traffic Controllers used.

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Beekeeper, I'm interested in the Zuma sailboats. Do you know what condition they're in and how I could contact the caretaker?
 
I've seen your traffic control board, that's cool, first I have to name all my boats. I have a north boat yard and a west boat yard, when I need more room I cut a couple more trees. Danpal I saw one of the zuma's it was red and had been patched, there were two that he said were in pretty good shape and he liked them more than the sunfish. His name is Dave, he answered this #1860-379-2009, the boats were listed on facebook mrkt place, good luck.
 
Forgot to say, we got the sail kit from Sailrite, we had made another sail for the copperhead, and it came out pretty good, so we thought we'd give it a go again. In the pic my wife is taking a break sewing in the bolt rope on the luff, for some of the work we use an old black 1916 singer sewing machine, nicknamed the farmers wife's helper, goes through 8 layers of dacron sail cloth, what a beast, still chugging along!
 
I've seen your traffic control board, that's cool, first I have to name all my boats. I have a north boat yard and a west boat yard, when I need more room I cut a couple more trees. Danpal I saw one of the zuma's it was red and had been patched, there were two that he said were in pretty good shape and he liked them more than the sunfish. His name is Dave, he answered this #1860-379-2009, the boats were listed on facebook mrkt place, good luck.
I grabbed one of the Zumas this morning- the red one- all are reduced to $250. Dave has 3 others- complete boats- and they are a steal at this price! I was tempted to buy two, but I just don’t have the space for another, (unless it’s a Sunfish ;))
The sail, rigging and spars are like new, Rudder is great, dagger was left out and needs refinishing. I have a newer ride and no hitch yet so he even delivered to the other side of the lake for me!
Danpal, grab one if you can this weekend!
 
I just talked to Dave, he said he has two left, painted red, probably one of the one's I saw in the parking lot, not sure if I should grab one. Was the one you got also painted red.
 
Yes, it was painted red and in the lot. He took me for a ride in his cart to the others- there were 3 and all were decent boats- patches here and there that weren’t beautiful but were solid and properly done. None were overweight.
I almost bought two- still kinda wish I had, but I have so many…
 
Me too, boats everywhere, but, I might still take a trip down on Monday. I have no experience with these boats and might just flip it, have you any time or knowledge of the zuma?
 
From forum "Search", a little more on the Zuma:

 
I have a friend on the Cape who has a Zuma and loves it, but I have no experience with the boat myself. I’m a Sunfish girl. Though I’ve dabbled with a West Wight Potter, a Cape Dory 14, a Hobie Holder and several other trailer sailors my go-to boat is my Sunfish. Or the Minifish! I’ll have some fun with the Zuma then will probably flip it. Can’t keep ‘em all…
 
Guess who's got a Zuma? I picked it up on Monday, after all that rain this past weekend the three that were in the upper lot all had a decent amount of water in the hulls except one, so, I grabbed that one, not the prettiest looking job on the patches like you said but solid. I just took a deposit on the Phantom I got last month and have one Sunfish listed for sale and several other boat projects to finish before I start messing around with the Zuma, but I'm itching to see if I can clean this boat up and get her looking sharp.
 
I picked up a Zuma from a neighbor also on Monday. Is the hull bottom under the cockpit super soft on yours? Is that a normal thing? Other than that one spot this seems like a really solid boat. I ordered a hiking strap and tiller extension joint from intensity, hoping to sail it this weekend, looks like it'll be a fun little boat. Excited to compare it to my sunfishies.
 
Glad there are a couple more Zuma owners to compare notes with! Hmm, not sure about that soft spot, JC. Let us know how it sails!
Beekeeper, your daggerboard probably looks like mine. I’ll refinish it and fill the dings, but I love the Camp Sequassin branding- keeps a bit of its history!
 

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Found out why the hull bottom's soft :(. All the foam is loose and rolling around. Tilted it really far forward and shook the boat a bit so it'd all fall towards the bow. Plan is to remove it in pieces through the existing inspection port at the bow. Soft spot isn't all that bad and is just a small space anyway, so should be fine without the structure of the foam. Check you're hulls for loose foam! Pictures are looking aft from the bow

What's the best/least messy way to cut up the foam into pieces that fit out a 5in. inspection port?
 

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What I'd do: :D

If the foam is dry to the touch, I'd add more foam!

Places such as Jo-Ann's hobby shops and Marine enterprises have structural foam in different dimensions--mostly rectangular pieces. Other shapes (like round) are available.

Pieces can be coated on the far ends with Pond & Stone, and threaded through your port. Coat each piece as they're pushed-in as far as possible. The expanding foam will fill much of the spaces and, being sticky, will amass all the flotation into one large piece. Two $8 cans of Pond & Stone should be enough. Follow the directions as to gloves, keeping it out of your eyes :eek:, and to adding water--as you go. :confused:

While not as "strong," as Styrofoam, Pond and Stone doesn’t absorb water and has good "resilience". (Returns to its original size after moderate crushing).
 
I'm going to take out the big blocks that belong way back behind the cockpit, there's just no way to get that one (maybe two) back in place. I will try to get the two skinny pieces back under the cockpit since they are clearly the structural ones. My other thought is take it all out, put some 5200 on a couple 2x4s and shove them under the cockpit area, then put some 1in long wood screws with washers and caulk through the cockpit bottom into the wood to make sure it doesn't move. Y'all know more than me, what's better? Also I sincerely apologize to the original thread starter for hijacking, didn't get any response to my thread New to me 1985 Zuma and the issue came up here.
 
JC, no worries about your questions, this thread has been morphing as it's moved along. Anything boats is all good and anytime we can help each other out is the same. I like hearing the different ideas on repairing our toys, sometimes the lightbulb goes on and you say wow I never would have considered that. Breeze Bender, my daggerboard is ruff too, but I don't have that insignia on mine, it's cool. Dave said over the years he had remade some of the boards and blades in his shop. I'll try to get some pics of mine here later, even the ugly spots.
 
I think you could probably salvage that boad with a good sanding and refinishing. I think my final plan of action on the foam is to take out all of it except the ones that go under the cockpit, put an inspection port in each side of the cockpit and reattach the foam that goes underneath. Wish me luck, can;t wait to see some pics of these boats sailing. Sounds like y'all will be on the water before me.
 
I'm going to take out the big blocks that belong way back behind the cockpit, there's just no way to get that one (maybe two) back in place. I will try to get the two skinny pieces back under the cockpit since they are clearly the structural ones. My other thought is take it all out, put some 5200 on a couple 2x4s and shove them under the cockpit area, then put some 1in long wood screws with washers and caulk through the cockpit bottom into the wood to make sure it doesn't move. Y'all know more than me, what's better? Also I sincerely apologize to the original thread starter for hijacking, didn't get any response to my thread New to me 1985 Zuma and the issue came up here.
I think most "salvagers" here would agree NOT to drill non-essential holes--except for inspection ports and mainsheet blocks.

Remember: "Water always wins"!

Zuma has a larger cockpit, which is friendly to "crew". Enjoy!
 
Cut up and got one big block out today, one more to go. Anybody have any idea where that foam right behind the daggerboard trunk in the second picture is supposed to be? Would like to put it where it belongs but not sure, it's too short to support the area in the center between the cockpit and hull bottom. Maybe along the edge of the cockpit? Or stood on it's side along the hull side? Could somebody with a Zuma do me a huge favor and snap a few pictures inside your hull so I can reference? Thanks so so much for all your help, all of your suggestions are being put into getting this thing safely on the water in a few weeks or at least before summer.
 
I don't have an inspection port in my hull, yet so can't help with that. I got a couple pictures of mine yesterday. Pretty rough repairs, anybody know what the two round holes in the gudgeon bracket are for?
 

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I thought the holes were to reduce weight too, but like you said, miniscule. The boats were at a Boy Scout camp, in the water with heavy use all season for twenty-five years, so no icebergs but probably most everything else.
 
Mine has the same holes as well as a few extra bolts in it :/. For anyone that's wondering, there are 3 blocks under the cockpit that run it's full length gradually tapering towards the stern, on large rectangular bock jammed forward of the mast step and another large rectangle one under the deck edges on either side of the cockpit. The only ones that offer structural support are the three under the cockpit. There's also some fiberglass ridges about an inch tall by two inches wide (stringers?) that run along the hull bottom and underside of the deck, they seem to add a lot of structural support.
 

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There's also some fiberglass ridges about an inch tall by two inches wide (stringers?) that run along the hull bottom and underside of the deck, they seem to add a lot of structural support.
My 20-foot O'Day Mariner has them, too.

I had an occasion to drill into one. :oops: The interior was Styrofoam! Which is normally how such reinforcements, or add-ons, are constructed.

(But could also have been balsa wood, plastic, or other material).
 
JC, I finally got my Zuma off the trailer today, between rain showers and flipped it over onto sawhorses. When we rolled her, I could hear foam blocks rolling across the inside of the hull, sounded large. So, when I get an inspection port in, I'll be dealing with the same issue as you. Where is your port that has been the most helpful?
 
Currently the port is in the forward side of the cockpit as shown. I'll put a new port in once I finish with the foam since this one's falling apart. To get the foam back under the cockpit I'll have to put a port in the port and starboard sides of the cockpit as well, that way I can get a can of pond and stone foam in there to keep it where it's supposed to be. The only foam that's structural is the three long pieces under the cockpit. The other three blocks are just in there for flotation so the boat won't sink if you put a major hole in it while sailing. It doesn't help much if it's waterlogged tho. I found the best thing for cutting the foam inside the boat is a hand saw about 8 inches long with fine teeth and a handle at one end. Using a yardstick and gravity to get the foam where I can reach it. Good luck!
 

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Here's some pics of the foam in the boat. I'm removing to the two big blocks in the stern since they're a little wet and aren't structural or attached. The block forward of the mast step will stay since it's dry and wedged in good.
Pic #1 is one of the three long blocks that needs to go back under the cockpit
Pic #2 is one of the big blocks
Pic #3 is the same big block after I fished it to the bow right before cutting it up and removing it
You have to get creative with flashlight, mirror or flipped phone camera angles to see what you're doing, but it's doable.
 

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