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Carbon top mast section

LaLi

Well-Known Member
I may be wrong about this, but I believe it's the same tube made by Southern Spars in NZL, with just a different source for the plugs and collar, and different labeling. Any price difference in a given market is most likely explained by duty & taxes, freight expenses, etc.

They should be equal in performance... or at least much more so than the aluminium topmasts.

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LaLi

Well-Known Member
They're all from CST Composites
That's possible. After all, we're not even supposed to know who the actual parts manufacturers are... just that the stuff we buy is provided (at least indirectly) by an official hull builder. The spars may say "Ovington" or "PSA", but they may, or may not, have come off the same mandrel.

Although PSJ did some testing more than 20 years ago, it was Southern Spars who developed the current spar. Seldén allegedly provided tubes for LP, but that's history now. If you want to get even more confused, consider that Diego Negri is selling "Seldén" topmasts as "fully constructed in Australia" :confused:

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jmp

New Member
CST have posted photo's of their shipments of ILCA sections to Ovington in the past, CST also build for PSA
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
That's possible. After all, we're not even supposed to know who the actual parts manufacturers are... just that the stuff we buy is provided (at least indirectly) by an official hull builder. The spars may say "Ovington" or "PSA", but they may, or may not, have come off the same mandrel.

Although PSJ did some testing more than 20 years ago, it was Southern Spars who developed the current spar. Seldén allegedly provided tubes for LP, but that's history now. If you want to get even more confused, consider that Diego Negri is selling "Seldén" topmasts as "fully constructed in Australia" :confused:

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I know Selden is still a supplier of mast tubes. They have a shop here in Charleston.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Is the first run of composite uppers from LP still legal?
Good question. LP was terminated as a builder on 27 March 2019, so everything that left their premises before that is definitely legal. The carbon topmast itself had been legal for more than two years then. After that date, things get fuzzy... at the time, ILCA said they'd inform later of how to identify (il)legal equipment including spars, but I haven't heard anything yet. Wouldn't reading the carbon spars' bar codes reveal the date/supplier/whatever?

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Rob B

Well-Known Member
Good question. LP was terminated as a builder on 27 March 2019, so everything that left their premises before that is definitely legal. The carbon topmast itself had been legal for more than two years then. After that date, things get fuzzy... at the time, ILCA said they'd inform later of how to identify (il)legal equipment including spars, but I haven't heard anything yet. Wouldn't reading the carbon spars' bar codes reveal the date/supplier/whatever?

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I think all new, (post LP split) class legal parts,(spars and blades primarily) have QR codes on them.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
all new, (post LP split) class legal parts,(spars and blades primarily) have QR codes on them.
Yeah, at least the newest, Ovington-supplied ones do. The question remains, what's the cutoff date for the LP stuff - if there is one? The very first thing that their website currently says is "Please note all of our Laser Spares, Excluding Sails, are Fully Class Legal." What that actually means is anybody's guess.

For example, the carbon topmasts that my national dealer is selling are obviously LP-sourced. They're probably old stock, but how old do they need to be to be legal?

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Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
I have only participated in some Masters' events and a few US Regionals. No inspections.
At which level do ILCA Measurers show up; I guess Nationals?

And what about Europe, Australia etc.?
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
ILCA measurers are also Laser sailors, we show up at club racing upwards. In Australia we have scheduled measuring days at Nationals and upwards, but will walk around the boat park more local events.
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
First and last event I went to where anything was measured was the 1993 US Nationals. We had our sails and blades checked but that was it. With the build controls and easy to ID gear I'm not really sure the "measure in's" are really needed anymore. I mean, what can be done to this boat/rig that would be illegal and give a significant advantage? There's really no way to cut weight out of the hull, new blades are pretty much impossible to alter without screwing them up and the sails are all well ID'd. Outside of some rigging "tricks" or if someone had the ability to actually re-cut and stitch up a sail what else can happen to the boat?
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
First and last event I went to where anything was measured was the 1993 US Nationals. We had our sails and blades checked but that was it. With the build controls and easy to ID gear I'm not really sure the "measure in's" are really needed anymore. I mean, what can be done to this boat/rig that would be illegal and give a significant advantage? There's really no way to cut weight out of the hull, new blades are pretty much impossible to alter without screwing them up and the sails are all well ID'd. Outside of some rigging "tricks" or if someone had the ability to actually re-cut and stitch up a sail what else can happen to the boat?
Dissolve the foam blocks inside the hull will significantly reduce the weight and reshape the top of the rudder blade, will alter the angle of the blade and reduce the helm, both are outright cheating and might result in getting kicked out of the class. Then oversize tape patches on the front of the centerboard case to hold the board up, oversize boom sleeves, illegal radial bottom sections (cut down standard bottom sections are not a radial bottom sections). How the control line are set are the most common issues these days with so many illegal set ups, 25% failed at the last world I measured. Sail numbers might seem insignificant but illegally place can assist with you not getting black flagged on a starting line, because you couldn't be positively identified. Then, just because the boat is brand new from the factory doesn't mean it's legal, lots of misplaced fittings or over length spars, battens. For me, the list is pretty endless of what else can happen top the boat.
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
Never heard of dissolving the foam blocks. BTW- what's inside the 2001 vanguard hulls? I've had stuff rumbling around in older hulls while flipping them on shore but my 2001 is quiet as a mouse.

I thought you could legally change rudder angle as long as it doesn't go beyond x degrees on down angle.

What's the rule on the dagger board tape? PSA is selling these rubber protectors for the leading edge of the trunk now.

What's the advantages gained in cutting down bottom sections?
 

Eric_R

Member
What's the rule on the dagger board tape? PSA is selling these rubber protectors for the leading edge of the trunk now.
14 d. One layer of any material of maximum 2mm thickness and of a maximum size of 30mm x 30mm may be applied at the top front corner of the centreboard case. Vertical cuts are allowed in the material to allow the material to conform to the shape of the centreboard case.

I've been using the fuzzy side of the Velcro for a while now to help with some wear on the top front part of the trunk.
 
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