Fully agree, this is why I'm anti people using "replica parts" on there boats they don't race. When / if they sell their boat, the new owner may want to race and is in for an expensive surprise.I would say there is a danger of someone who is new to the class who is not up to speed with the 'quirks' of the class rules who may buy them and then end up having to buy 'official' blocks to race with.
Below is a list of parts that are functionally equivalent or identical to each other beside being stamped with a laser trademark.
I'm sure this can be refined and made more complete but it gets the point across.
I left out sails, masts, blades since I do not consider them identical to the official ones.
Part /Official /No Laser TM /Delta
Bailer $75.00 $20.00 $55.00
Bow eye $15.00 $5.00 $10.00
Deck blocks + plate $64.00 $56.00 $8.00
Deck cleats $108.00 $40.00 $68.00
Fairlead $12.00 $8.00 $4.00
Hiking strap plate $9.00 $1.00 $8.00
Rudder lift stop $5.00 $2.75 $2.25
Large traveler block $24.00 $9.00 $15.00
Small traveler block $17.00 $8.00 $9.00
Gooseneck $53.00 $18.00 $35.00
Vang strap $16.00 $7.00 $9.00
Vang tang $27.00 $13.00 $14.00
Mainsheet block $22.00 $6.00 $16.00
Mainsheet block w tang $24.00 $6.00 $18.00
Total $471.00 $199.75 $271.25
I would not have any problem paying the extra money if this money (and I mean 100% of it) went to the class association.
Since this is not the case and most (all?) of the $$ goes to the trademark holder, I think the class should allow identical parts w/o the Laser TM to be used in racing or alternatively renegotiate with the trademark holders.
In practical terms I do not think anyone would ever be protested for using any of these unofficial parts in any race.
E
Old Dude, the thing I'm worried about is how it impacts under the current rules. What happens in the future is a different matter and I suspect no one including yourself & Emilio have yet put anything in writing to the ILCA requesting the rules get changed. Whilst I'm no longer a measurer, one of the reasons why I got out was because of the increasing difficulty of determining if boats were actually legal. If the class is losing volunteer class officials because they don't get the support of the members or the association, the class is in far worse condition than just the issue between Kirby & LP.
The whole reason why the class grew to be so strong was because we all sailed the same boat within a specific region, even if there were small regional differences (i.e. which sails were available in which region which was generally only the one sail). We're losing site of why the class became strong in the first place.
You're not offering anything. If you want non TM parts, instead of replying to me. Write a letter to the ILCA, cc NALCA and your district LCA and actually put forward a proposal. Encourage others with a similar opinion to do the same. Sorry, having a discussion on a forum means f*** all. The same applies with everything else posted here about rule changes, be it Bottle Port or any to do with rigging. If you want something to be made class legal, it's up to you to approach the ILCA formally and not the ILCA to think up something random and think wouldn't that be wonderful.
I think the class right now needs to wait and see what the legal outcome of the litigation is. Once the situation is clearer the class should propose changes of some of its class rules OR get a much better deal from the suppliers.Write a letter to the ILCA, cc NALCA and your district LCA and actually put forward a proposal. Encourage others with a similar opinion to do the same.... If you want something to be made class legal, it's up to you to approach the ILCA formally and not the ILCA to think up something random and think wouldn't that be wonderful.
I'm OK with SMOD to some degree, even if it means paying more for parts. However in the case of the class-legal sail, and I know I'm beating a dead horse here, I really feel I'm getting taken advantage of.
Has anyone wondered why that is? LP and PSA would sell at least twice as many sails if they dropped the price to £300 (and kill off the replica market as well). Yet LP and PSA still persist with their asinine pricing policy. I would buy a new sail every year at £300; I haven't bought a new sail since 2009. I just make do: so, I suspect, do you and thousands like you.
I'm OK with SMOD to some degree, even if it means paying more for parts. However in the case of the class-legal sail, and I know I'm beating a dead horse here, I really feel I'm getting taken advantage of.
I haven't bought a new sail since 2009. I just make do: so, I suspect, do you and thousands like you.
Bought a second-hand boat about five years ago. Had only been sailed twice with an Intensity sail, class-legal sail was still in the plastic. The FIRST I raced with it I capsized in bad location, and the current got me pinned against a moored boat. I had to get towed off, and the mast was drug across an anchor chain. Left some small tears in the luff sleeve that I just put up with.
For about a year I've been meaning to buy a new sail, but have held off due to the "impending" release of the new design. I think I will finally break down next spring.
I suspect some sort of deal to be made among the warring parties soon after, and the new sail design will be rolled out.
Why not brand these parts as "ILCA" (or have "ILCA License No. xxxxx-xxx")and have the ILCA control the manufacture and sale? Each part is contracted for a limited time, say 4 years, and then must re-bid to the ILCA to get the approval to have the trademark.
We will then have a lower cost of parts, and a lot of the copied parts will simply go away (or become the official supplier) plus the the ILCA manage it for a standard mark up of 25% or similar. Distribution are via the ILCA website and via the builder's regular channels.
Can someone propose a better solution?
I honestly feel LP is way too greedy. Beyond that I fully understand that rules are rules and why they exist. But, with small things like the little plate on the deck that holds the two blocks. That has to be LP, Really? You are going t oallow any blocks, but the plate has to be LP. Lets get real.
One of the posters here declared that he was against anyone using aftermarket parts because they might one day sell their boat to someone who might want to have it class legal. Well, first off, I will go back to the little plate. The aftermarket one is identical, and does not require any mods to use it, so if a future owner wants to be legal he can swap it.
Now I own a 9181 boat, and I want the newer stuff but I will never race at the level where I would really need to be class legal. With a boat of my vintage anyone who is serious enough to want to race at a level where they will "need "to be legal 100% can go through the boat and replace the one or two items that are not class legal, but don't expect me to shell out the big bucks to play around at home with a boat that I picked up for $1000. If I end up serious enough I would probably end up investing $3000 for a decent boat. Now if someone took a newish boat and started replacing stuff for the copies. It would still be their problem. I would much rather someone buy a 'training "boom and still enjoy sailing than quit sailing because they could not replace the boom when it broke. For alot of kids and adults alike the difference in cost of a sail or a spar might be enough to ground them. If they sell the boat latter, buyer beware. Most likley if the buyer is serious about racing they will know ahead of time the questions to ask and the rules and maybe pass up on a boat that has some parts that were replaced.
At my local club, they have 3 sunfish, none of which would ever pass for class legal, not even close, but over 100 kids a year learn to sail on them, my son included. Should they complain that someone sold the club a "nonlegal" class boat? He## no. The more kids that learn to sail the better.
ILCA does not have that sort of power. Most of the power resides with the builders/rights holders which is why the class is the way it is and why they can dictate what is to happen on a lot of issues. ILCA can request changes but if all the builders and the rights holder do not agree then it will not get through.
Shame. Though can't help wondering with the legal case, the possibility of 'the system' being re-evaluated / re-created is maybe a little higher than zero.
Both the Australian & Japanese builders do care about the class. Pity that the builder inyor region is only concerned about themselves.What's needed is a builder that actually cares about the class.
Both the Australian & Japanese builders do care about the class. Pity that the builder inyor region is only concerned about themselves.