What's new

Are these class legal?

The Laser TM is only relevant for the majority of Laser parts if the ILCA make it so via the class rules - with the exception of the hull and the sail. Everything else doesn't have to have the sunburst logo, even though some do and some don't. We can expect the manufactured cost to be less than the non sanctioned part. (List credit to Emilio Castelli)

Part /Official /No Laser TM /Delta
Bailer $75.00 $20.00 $55.00
Bow eye $15.00 $5.00 $10.00
Deck blocks + plate $64.00 $56.00 $8.00
Deck cleats $108.00 $40.00 $68.00
Fairlead $12.00 $8.00 $4.00
Hiking strap plate $9.00 $1.00 $8.00
Rudder lift stop $5.00 $2.75 $2.25
Large traveler block $24.00 $9.00 $15.00
Small traveler block $17.00 $8.00 $9.00
Gooseneck $53.00 $18.00 $35.00
Vang strap $16.00 $7.00 $9.00
Vang tang $27.00 $13.00 $14.00
Mainsheet block $22.00 $6.00 $16.00
Mainsheet block w tang $24.00 $6.00 $18.00
Total $471.00 $199.75 $271.25

Sanctioned builders already pay the ILCA for the plaques, so there is already a business relationship there. (Perhaps with small profits from parts, the plaques no longer need to be as expensive?)

Maybe the case for the ILCA to manage parts as I proposed is stronger than I initially thought.

ILCA get manufacturers to pitch for 4 year supply contracts at a fixed price. (Starting November 2016)

So the supply chain for parts would be:
1) Manufacturer --> ILCA --> Sanctioned builder --> Sailor
2) Manufacturer --> ILCA --> Sanctioned builder --> Retailer --> Sailor
AND
3) Manufacturer --> ILCA --> Sailor

Where perhaps the margins are:
ILCA to Sanctioned builders is 5%
ILCA direct sales to sailors for ILCA members is 25%, and non members is %100.

And a cost saving may help boost ILCA membership?
 

torrid

Just sailing
I thought the Japanese builder had their license revoked by BKI as they were also in dispute?
That one has me puzzled. I suspect the Japanese builder was more than happy to continue paying royalties to Kirby, and he didn't really seem to have a dog in this fight. However were he to directly jump on board the Kirby Torch bandwagon, he would be essentially joining sides. Maybe revoking his license was done to give him some cover.
 

Deimos

Member
What's needed is a builder that actually cares about the class.
The daft thing about the situation the class is in is that a builder who cares about the class also serves their own long term interest. It seems that many of the current issues stem from a builder who has only short term interests and wants as much as they can get as soon as they can get it; rather than taking a long term view where the success of the class will also mean their own commercial success.

Ian
 

whatever

Member
The daft thing about the situation the class is in is that a builder who cares about the class also serves their own long term interest. It seems that many of the current issues stem from a builder who has only short term interests and wants as much as they can get as soon as they can get it; rather than taking a long term view where the success of the class will also mean their own commercial success.

Ian
The way the rules work, each builder has freedom to optimize its profits. Assuming the cost to build a boat is fixed (this may not be strictly accurate, but for a first order approximation, it's probably OK). The builder can increase prices, which will increase the profit per boat. However, increased prices will mean less sales. Lower prices will increase the number of boat sales but decrease the profit per boat. Costs are largely fixed by the construction manual.

So, a lazy builder can probably make almost the same profit by increasing prices and building fewer boats. Perhaps this is the route down which the builders are going.
 

jeffers

Active Member
The way the rules work, each builder has freedom to optimize its profits. Assuming the cost to build a boat is fixed (this may not be strictly accurate, but for a first order approximation, it's probably OK). The builder can increase prices, which will increase the profit per boat. However, increased prices will mean less sales. Lower prices will increase the number of boat sales but decrease the profit per boat. Costs are largely fixed by the construction manual.

So, a lazy builder can probably make almost the same profit by increasing prices and building fewer boats. Perhaps this is the route down which the builders are going.
Unlikely. My spy who works for LP says they have a warehouse with 100+ new hulls in it at present. The issue they have is getting enough foils and spars to keep up with the flow of sales.
 
Unlikely. My spy who works for LP says they have a warehouse with 100+ new hulls in it at present. The issue they have is getting enough foils and spars to keep up with the flow of sales.
Don't LP now make the foils themselves? "LaserPerformance’s dedicated new manufacturing facility using their proprietary infused foils technology" http://www.laserperformance.com/blog/laserperformance-set-to-launch-new-grp-foils. Can anybody confirm or correct my understand that this "dedicated new manufacturing facility" was in China, then got moved to the US? Assuming Jeffers spy is UK, then is one side of the "pond" causing issues for the other side? If a builder can't even supply itself a core component of the laser, no wonder we have the spread of "third party" none class legal parts.
 
Don't LP now make the foils themselves? "LaserPerformance’s dedicated new manufacturing facility using their proprietary infused foils technology" http://www.laserperformance.com/blog/laserperformance-set-to-launch-new-grp-foils. Can anybody confirm or correct my understand that this "dedicated new manufacturing facility" was in China, then got moved to the US? Assuming Jeffers spy is UK, then is one side of the "pond" causing issues for the other side? If a builder can't even supply itself a core component of the laser, no wonder we have the spread of "third party" none class legal parts.
OK, super confused now. Put infused foils into Google, you find the following two posts on the LP website about the GRP foils.
One talks about Simon Cooke of a company called Infused Foils.
http://www.laserperformance.com/blog/laserperformance-set-to-launch-new-grp-foils
http://www.laserperformance.com/blog/laserperformance-partners-with-simon-cooke-to-launch-infused-foils-globally
Next found the following
http://www.simoncooke.co.nz/newzealand.html
Finally found a website for a company called OMTRO.
http://www.omtro.com/portfolio/grp-infused-foils
 
OK, super confused now. Put infused foils into Google, you find the following two posts on the LP website about the GRP foils.
One talks about Simon Cooke of a company called Infused Foils.
http://www.laserperformance.com/blog/laserperformance-set-to-launch-new-grp-foils
http://www.laserperformance.com/blog/laserperformance-partners-with-simon-cooke-to-launch-infused-foils-globally
Next found the following
http://www.simoncooke.co.nz/newzealand.html
Finally found a website for a company called OMTRO.
http://www.omtro.com/portfolio/grp-infused-foils
This is the most up to date thing l could find about LP's foils. https://www.facebook.com/LaserPerformanceSailboats/photos/a.114597703425.100008.92222353425/10151940534128426/?type=1 The centreboard doesn't look like a GRP infused one with "grey" top part. Looks just like any normal pre 2010 one or a third-party non class legal centreboard.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top