I have been going over this with my production guys. This is their response;
The fact that the Intensity sail is faster than a "race" sail in many conditions is an added bonus.
I would not have started making these If I felt that there was any inherent advantage or disadvantage (other than price)To say that I regret his statement and disagree is an understatement.
THe BS meter is running pretty high now...first you run what is basically an add for your knock-off non class legal sails touting they are faster then classs sails but when someone calls you on it you whine that its a production guys statement (that you typed) and you regret it because you are altruistic and just want to help your fellow Laser sailors....total BS. By the way where exactly are these knockoff sails made again?
I bought an Intensity Radial sail and am having trouble with it. In light to medium air, I can't get rid of the lump of cloth behind the luff that runs vertically on the entire height of the sail. I think this is a factor of the extra cloth weight and extra resin in the sail, making it stiffer, and I've seen it on a full sized Intensity sail, as well. Normally, one could adjust the outhaul to pull this "lump" out, but it doesn't work with this sail. The mast sleeve is also wider than on my legal sail and I don't know if this is a factor in the sloppiness of the sail. Can anyone who has an Intensity sail guide me? Is there a way to flatten this sail?
You are right. It is all BS to think that either sail has an advantage.
May seem a daft question, but if this is the case, why do you claim that your sail is faster (than a class legal sail) under many conditions. It was you that claimed this. Nobody was even asking about the speed comparisons but you felt obliged to share this fact with us.
Is this updated/revised claim based on new tests carried out or is it changed just because it has identified a good reason why clubs should not allow Intensity sails to be used in club races.
Ian
SailChris - as to the who cares if the sail is faster or slower - I do. I get out one day a week - I have other commitments that prevent me from getting out more - new kid, new house, full time job blah blah blah - some may know the drill. That one day for me is MY day - what may be practice for some is quite serious for others. This one day is the day I get to be a kid, to race, be competitive, to be equal and be the only one to blame for mistakes - and maybe sit around the parking lot with a beer telling lies about races not won etc...
Anyway, seeing as you are in Foxborough, we may see each other on the water some day - I am in NH - please come to the NH Seacoast Open Laser Regatta
Intensity,
Can you ask your engineer what it is that makes these sails faster - I assume he/she has a reason for stating this - and how it is that this statement applies only to the Radial and not the Full? As you mention, the speed is based on the firmer cloth. So is the Radial Sail cut from different cloth than the full? Anyway, you've pretty much lost my vote. I trust you sent your question to one of your trusted engineers, and now that you don't like what he/she said, his/her opinion is of no consequence. Sorry - things don't really work that way in my mind.
M
We have been selling our sails for the past year and a half. Nearly 1000 sails are in use world wide. I have not heard even one report of our sails differing in actual performance to the class legal sails in the full rig, radial or 4.7. The theory of an engineer is far different than this record of actual use.
I am truly sorry to have "lost your vote" on this issue. Our record of manufacturing a quality product at a very affordable price that serves a real need speaks for itself.
If they are not faster then it is pretty disreputable for the manufacturer to claim on a public forum that they are (and then what other claims from the manufacturer come in the same category). If they are faster then club races should ban then from any races (at any level).
Ian
...best to speak to someone actually using our product without an ax to grind against my company for an unbiased opinion.
the issue here should not be why intensity is making a "knock off" i think it should be why are we all being ripped off by north sails and Hyde. north sails and Hyde are probably the two biggest sail manufacturers in the world and they have all of the high tech facilities and resources to produce the sails cheaper then intensity sails yet they charge over 300-400 dollars more then intensity and l the sails have a shorter a shorter life. i think that it is a good thing what intensity does because it helps more people get into the sport. i agree that it is a great thing to be a strict one design but i disagree that being a strict one design gives manufacturers the right to create a monopoly and over charge on "class legal" parts, which is something that turns people away from being part of the sport. thats just my opinion maybe I'm missing part of the story or uneducated but the sail is marketed as a practice sail intensity cant control how people use them.
Sorry SFBayLaser, I don't buy the idea that the distribution & dealer cost tacks 360 dollars to the price of a sail.
I
Having said that, I am still not for the idea of having sails with different characteristics racing on the same course . That seems like a very slippery slope and one that ought to be resisted.
As I understand it, in the US the sails are manufactured (North or Hyde) who sell them to the builder (making a profit) and have to pay delivery (though in volume this is probably trivial per sail. Builder then sells them (making profit) to the retailer and has to charge delivery (all adding to the end price). Retailer then sells them to the boat owner, making profit as well. Thus, cost of sail in US comprises:
Manufacturing costs
Manufacturers profit
Builders profit
Retailers profit
(ignoring all the delivery charges). Quite a few people making money in the chain. Compare that to the "Knock-off" manufacturers:
Manufacturing costs
Manufacturers profit
As others commented earlier in the thread, the costs from manufacturer might not be that different. It might just be the route to market and so many people making their profit. Ian
The above is probably true, but the fact remains that we must buy overpriced mass produced sails that look bad out of the bag and only get worse, quickly.
Perhaps a revision of the supply chain in this internet age is possible?
Couldn't Hyde and or North be allowed to skip the middle men, make a royalty payment to the class for each sail?
And couldn't the class review the sail specs and construction techniques, to allow an equal sail that would have some longevity?
None of this is rocket science guys and gals.
The above is probably true ...
Perhaps a revision of the supply chain in this internet age is possible?
Couldn't Hyde and or North be allowed to skip the middle men, make a royalty payment to the class for each sail?