To class members it's a potentially fatal blow to the boat and the class that we love. Which group's opinion is worth more?
Agreed with the results in that there was no surprise that Kirby support is the majority view - though it's more dominant than I thought it would be. The figures don't represent the fence sitters - though I haven't found too many of them... possibly the survey could have been a little more professional - also asked if the respondents were current ILCA members... etc. By the way, the survey did take 4 days to get the 110 responses. (it was also posted LinkedIn, Sailing Anarchy and Twitter).
Gantt said: ↑Agreed with the results in that there was no surprise that Kirby support is the majority view - though it's more dominant than I thought it would be. The figures don't represent the fence sitters - though I haven't found too many of them... possibly the survey could have been a little more professional - also asked if the respondents were current ILCA members... etc. By the way, the survey did take 4 days to get the 110 responses. (it was also posted LinkedIn, Sailing Anarchy and Twitter).Wavedancer replied:
Gantt's poll was pretty useless IMHO.Or perhaps I should say 'irrelevant'.
The way the questions were phrased was very one-sided.Moreover, anybody who reads the Dinghy Forum of Sailing Anarchy could vote. One didn't even have to be a Laser sailor. Or even a sailor...
I know of several persons (about 10) that have changed their mind since voting "yes", a couple that still would vote "yes", and a few (about 4, including Tillerman) that voted "No". Again - though this is not scientific - it forms a bias in my mind, and certainly gives me the impression that things have changed. I think several ILCA members resigned over this. I wonder what would happen is several hundred who voted, wrote into the ILCA (or stated it publicly) expressing that they no longer support the rule change.FWIW, the majority opinion on this forum on the original vote to change the Fundamental Rule appeared to favour the "No" position. When it came to the actual vote, the overwhelming majority of voters voted "Yes"*. But even then, I guess only a small percentage of ILCA members that voted and only a small percentage of Laser sailors are members of the ILCA.
* 1017 ‘yes’ votes (89.3%) and 122 ‘no’ votes (10.7%),
We had a comment on our blog from someone who voted on the ILCA rule change and was not a class member and didn't own a Laser. Neither was a requirement to vote so Gannt's survey was as good as the ILCA's vote.
To find your local ISAF rep, visit here: http://www.sailing.org/about/members/mnas/index.php
Also, contact your local club commodore/captain/president. Should we develop a statement so it can be cut and pasted? How does the following sound:
Yachting New Zealand
Attn: Jan Dawson and David Abercrombie
dabercrombie@yachtingnz.org.nz
Dear Jan and David,
ISAF recently approved a rule change to the International Laser (Kirby Sailboat). The ILCA vote in 2011 for the rule change concerning North American is universally accepted by sailors as being flawed in many respects. The ISAF originally rejected the rule change on the basis of such concerns. ISAF have recently reversed their original position and not only have approved the change, they have approved the removal of "Bruce Kirby Inc" from plaques issued by ISAF/ILCA. It is my belief that these plaques are intended to be used for the Kirby Sailboats manufactured by Laser Performance for the North American and European markets.
Laser Performance, who is subject to legal action by Kirby for breech of contract, is no longer recognized as an official builder of the Kirby Sailboat by Bruce Kirby Inc,. Such recognition is a contractual requirement and part of the system which has seen the class become the world's most popular adult one-design class. This action has also placed regions outside of Europe and North America in a difficult situation, with one major supplier from Oceania (PSA) expressing that they will not produce the Kirby Sailboat with plaques that do not have the Kirby name as they say they will be in breech of contract.
The recent actions by the ISAF has attracted legal action from Bruce Kirby against ISAF and ILCA (see attachment).
I am opposed to the position that the ISAF have taken on this matter and request that they reverse their position at the earliest instance. Specifically, this means: (1) no longer ratifying the ICLA rule change concerning manufacture. (2) Issuing plaques with the Kirby name. (3) Continuing to support the Kirby Sailboat as an International and Olympic class.
Yours Sincerely,
BH
P Boating Club
NZ
Of course make your own edits before sending it. (I will be sending it in a couple of hours. Love to hear if I have made any errors etc. from you guys first. Also, I'll be circulating it to other members I know.)
http://sailingforums.com/threads/2011-rule-changes-fundamental-rule.21064/page-3#post-102047
They did screen the votes to see if you are a member.
Yes I race Lasers (last races in April - it's winter here now) and am a member of a yacht club affiliated to ISAF via YNZ. I am not a member of the ILCA though have been previously. I am thinking that I should rejoin.Gantt - Are you a member of the ILCA? Do you race in the class?
Sorry for some here >>> not fur is flying here at ISAF meeting> same long talking
Who thinks ISAF council is sorry for a man who makes a law suit against ISAF!!!
ISAF says Laser is to be the olympic boat .Torch is only puff and smoke >>>
No more story here.
sorry english is not my language.
I am real in denmark but just watch from back>>>
'meetISAF', I am not native english speaker, too. I really understand/know how difficult it is to translate into english. I am not able to understand any danish, to help. In my own opinion: Ignore comments here at TLF like jeffers just has done it to you, just report and just don't use bad words like f..k or shi* etc. Feel free to report of the ISAF meeting,thanks for that. Most is done there at the meeting "behind of the curtains", of course, not infront of the liveTV.... Greetings to Denmark from the GER neighborhood, LooserLu.sorry english is not my language.
I am real in denmark but just watch from back>>>
'meetISAF', I am not native english speaker, too. I really understand/know how difficult it is to translate into english. I am not able to understand any danish, to help. In my own opinion: Ignore comments here at TLF like jeffers just has done it to you, just report and just don't use bad words like f..k or shi* etc. Feel free to report of the ISAF meeting,thanks for that. Most is done there at the meeting "behind of the curtains", of course, not infront of the liveTV.... Greetings to Denmark from the GER neighborhood, LooserLu.
jeffers, I respect you, you know that. But just let him/her write, what happens behind the live TV. We all here have our own opinions, and discuss it here. Bradley or Merrily decide if our posts are against the forums rules etc.etc. If that what meetISAF is really true or not soon the press-media let us konw. If I would be able to do, now I' like to invite you to a beer ()a danish Carlsberg), of course (but I guess the distance of miles/km's is to big). Seee you on the water...Lu
Thanks!Vice Versa! We live ~ in the same line of latitude (I am just some 100s of km to the east of you...) Northrhine-Westfalia (GER). You would be able to sail an 'original counterfeit Laser(TM)'(with BK(TM)-logo in the ISAF-plaque)...This is what we were doing Lu....if you ever find yourself anywhere near the midlands in the UK let me know, I will buy you a beer, might even let you borrow my boat if you need a sail.
I don't think he's going to out-lawyer Rastegar by filing motion after motion.
Hey Gannt!
2014 NZ National's in Nelson sounds like a cool place to sail...Will they have charter boats?
Hi 182772 (Fred?), I certainly hope so! Let's get this mess cleaned up first.