All about to kick off....

L

Laser Tim

New Member
#1
Thread starter #1
Word is out that there is a meeting next week somewhere in US. Kirby, PSA and a European group will sign and agree the distribution for newly named Laser. Laser Performance are out.....though no doubt they will kick up, bitch and moan and try and go legal.....

Gonna get messy (messier)......
 
CaptainAhab

CaptainAhab

Active Member
#2
#2
We need to start a thread about the new name.

Will they just change the name? Improve construction? Central main sheeting? Carbon fiber upper? Radial cut sail?

Who gets the to sail in the Olympics "The Laser Class" or "The Loser Class".
 
torrid

torrid

Just sailing
#3
#3
You know what? It's almost springtime, and the first regatta is at the end of March. I'm just going to sail my boat.

Though I do need a new sail. I hope they hurry up with that.
 
D

Deimos

Member
#4
#4
CaptainAhab said:
Who gets the to sail in the Olympics "The Laser Class" or "The Loser Class".
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(Assuming it happens) it is an interesting question. My opinion would be that if Laser Performance stayed as the Olympic boat then there would be no specification for the boat so nobody could tell if they were sailing a real Laser or not, if their boat measured or not. I assume the ISAF would need a better "specification" that "must be made and certified by LPE"). So they would have to draw up rules, etc. which may then exclude all the existing Lasers out there (unless they just copied the existing rule book - which might cause problems).

I would suspect the "new class" could include a rule including all existing Lasers build before <date of new class> so Open Meetings/Regattas, etc. would all be fine. But if New Class became the Olympic boat then I assume the Olympic bodies would in effect be selecting a "new class" and they might just as easily drop the Laser/<new class> (which I think would be good for us anyway). <new class> would be daft not to as they would need to be the class with the numbers of boats, fleets in every club, basically they would have a far harder time if they were "a new class". Maybe the battle would be about who is "the new class" and who the existing boats.

And who would the ILCA represent ? The LPE boats or the <new class>. Maybe <new class> would get their own class association.

Whilst I don't think any of this situation is good for the class, I also don't worry about the impacts on fleets. I don't see the two types of boat splitting the existing fleets and everybody everywhere will go to <new class> or Laser. In practice I think <new class> is probably stronger. Also, the sail and 3rd party gear is a far bigger issue to everybody

Ironically, maybe this will speed-up the adoption of a new sail as one thing that would put either camp in a stronger position is to release a new decent sail (even half decent would be nice). But who would be free to make that decision ?

Probably never happen but interesting thinking about what the future might bring.
 
49208

49208

Tentmaker
#8
#8
Wavedancer

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#11
#11
The complaint shows that ILCA should have stayed away from the rumble. What a big mistake by our previous 'leaders'!
:eek: Part of our dues will continue to flow to the legal profession.
 
O

Old Dude

Member
#12
#12
Wavedancer said:
The complaint shows that ILCA should have stayed away from the rumble. What a big mistake by our previous 'leaders'!
:eek: Part of our dues will continue to flow to the legal profession.
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Seems to me that ILCA was stuck in the middle and there was no way out...

If they bow to Kirby's threat, LP sues and we could end up as 2 classes. If they ignore Kirby, he sues and we could end up as two classes. Nevermind ILCA, it seems like even ISAF tried to dance the middle ground for as long as they could and even they got sued by Kirby.

What a mess.

Old Dude
 
torrid

torrid

Just sailing
#13
#13
I agree the ILCA was stuck in the middle no matter what they did. I don't object to the path they took, just the poor way it was communicated to the membership. From what I can tell in the complaint, BK is seeking more of a "cease and desist" from the ILCA/ISAF than monetary damages.

There are lots of fingers to point in this mess, but I still think at the end of the day BK best represents the interets of the average Laser sailor. But he had a right to protect his legal interests, too.
 
O

Old Dude

Member
#14
#14
I don't know about that. Think I will wait to hear what the judge has to say. ISAF and ILCA had no skin in this game and they seem to have leaned the other way.

BTW, what do you have against those nice little deck cleats!
 
gouvernail

gouvernail

Super Opinionated and Always Correct
#15
#15
Wow!!!
I am a tad concerned about hosting the event described in my signature unless I also make a reasonable effort to prevent use of counterfeit hulls in the event.
 
gouvernail

gouvernail

Super Opinionated and Always Correct
#17
#17
jeffers said:
Oh what a mess......and now only the lawyers will profit...blood sucking parasites!

Looks like the new sail is some way off then!
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What an offensive post. Are we to assume that Jeffers and only Jeffers knows what is right and wrong and only Jeffers should ever decide?? Does Jeffers prefer dictatorships and tyrants to a system of justice where trained, degreed, and sorted by subsequent examination representatives professionally advocate for that which their employers believe is right?

Half the lawyers involved in this fight will be defending all that is good and proper . The lawyers on the losing side will have been doing their very best to serve those who hired them.
Each of those occupations is noble.

The lawyers will probably be well paid for their work. I am curious why you believe that makes it proper to call them bloodsuckers.

What does Jeffers do for a living?? Is Jeffers a boodsucker??
 
jeffers

jeffers

Active Member
#18
#18
No I am not a bloodsucker but I have come across plenty of solicitors and, without exception, they are all in it to make as much money as possible out of the people they claim to 'represent'.

Sorry you find this offensive but it is my view, please respect that.
 
O

Old Dude

Member
#19
#19
gouvernail said:
What an offensive post. Are we to assume that Jeffers and only Jeffers knows what is right and wrong and only Jeffers should ever decide?? Does Jeffers prefer dictatorships and tyrants to a system of justice where trained, degreed, and sorted by subsequent examination representatives professionally advocate for that which their employers believe is right?

Half the lawyers involved in this fight will be defending all that is good and proper . The lawyers on the losing side will have been doing their very best to serve those who hired them.
Each of those occupations is noble.

The lawyers will probably be well paid for their work. I am curious why you believe that makes it proper to call them bloodsuckers.

What does Jeffers do for a living?? Is Jeffers a boodsucker??
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Uh, Gouv, perhaps you might want to take a look in the mirror yourself? You make no secret of your loathing for those elected and volunteering to run the class. Here, there, everywhere you run them down with a bus, back it up over them and do it again, and again, over and over. And now you declare that some Lasers - declared legal by the class and ISAF (BTW, I gather you would be including those boats and sailors from the Olympics in your definition) as not welcome. I am sure you will not miss me, but thanks anyway.

The one sure thing and fact here is there are going to be very different opinions about who is right and who is wrong. It might be educational to hear from them all.

Those that did take the time to vote on the issue stood with the class. Turns out ISAF did as well. Given both organizations know more about this than any of us, have the benefit of counsel, and are least biased in terms of financial interest, and appear to have not supported Kirby's view. Based on that as well as what reading I was able to do, I'm leaning that way myself.
 
torrid

torrid

Just sailing
#20
#20
The complains seems to outline a conspiracy between LP, the ILCA, and the ISAF to deprive BK of royalties. One thing it does not mention in BK's brief sale of the design rights to the Australian builder. I think it's been established they were positioning themselves to begin importing boats into the US market.

Now I'm not a bloodsucking parasite attorney, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. However, it seems to me the basis of a defense could be that BK and the Australian builder were conspiring to deprive LP of their exclusive right to sell Lasers in its markets. That's the first thing I would bring up with the jury.
 
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