470 Questions

Thread starter #1
Here are some questions I have regarding my new boat. Feel free to answer or add your own.


What are the different types of spinnaker bags? What are the mounting standards? Are there specific types for different sailing techniques? Never used one before, any input would be great.

Why is 470 gear hard to find/expensive compared to other classes?

Has anyone reinforced a 470 hull by laying glass from the inside? My boat has two “doors” (not to be mistaken for an inspection port) that can be opened to let the hull dry/make maintenance easier.

Is it possible to role a 470 jib on a %110 furler or do I need a specific type of sail? (I probably won’t bother, just curious).

Why don’t you see the 470 class out on the lake? I thought it was a pretty popular class, should have seen at least one at home...

Why are 470 races hard to find? I would have to drive a bit to nearest... aren’t they an Olympic class?...

What’s the easiest way to learn how to effectively trapeze?

Can a crew of two ~230lbs (~100kg) be able to right a turtled 470? Crew of one?

Can you sail solo, single trapeze, on a 470? While flying a spinnaker?

When a 470 becomes suddenly over powered, and the skipper fails to luff the sail, would the crew on the line be brought over the hull and onto the mast/sail? Is there a safety release mechanism for this scenario? ... I can see how this can become very dangerous very quick.

Why do you sail a 470?

Thanks for any input!
 

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LaLi

Well-Known Member
#2
What are the different types of spinnaker bags? What are the mounting standards? Are there specific types for different sailing techniques?
The bags differ only really whether they have one or two closing flaps at the top, and I believe they all have two these days. Affects the mounting a little but not much.
Standard mounting would be direct screwing or through-bolting to the bulkhead at the front top corners, and holding the back top corners and the closing flap(s) up with elastic tied to the mast gate and fittings on the side deck. Those fittings may be ones used for other functions, such as trapeze elastic leads, or the chainplates.
Why is 470 gear hard to find/expensive compared to other classes?

Why don’t you see the 470 class out on the lake? I thought it was a pretty popular class, should have seen at least one at home...

Why are 470 races hard to find? I would have to drive a bit to nearest... aren’t they an Olympic class?...
These are all the same question, really. Or at least there is one answer.

Olympic status guarantees popularity on a global scale, but it doesn't necessarily lead to popularity on a local or national level. It does very easily lead to elitism, though, which directly leads to activity dropping off at the sub-international level. It's a slow process which is driven by the ease of running a class only for the top sailors. The 470 was chosen for the Olympics as a "people's boat", but what it's come to during the last 20+ years is that the class consists of Olympic hopefuls only. There are at best only a handful of those teams per country, and therefore very few even national-level regattas. I don't believe that the International 470 Association has ever made the conscious decision, but the class has effectively outsourced its grassroots to the 420 class, worldwide. You see now why there is so much class-specific equipment available for the other class but not the other?
Has anyone reinforced a 470 hull by laying glass from the inside?
I have! I laminated some extra stringers on my boat when they were allowed at the time. It's not hard to do through the big hatches, but I wouldn't do anything like that to an old boat unless there is something actually broken and in need of repair.
Is it possible to role a 470 jib on a %110 furler or do I need a specific type of sail? .
A furler has always been illegal in the 470, and it would be pretty useless as well. It's not used even in comparable classes which allow it. Adding one would probably throw the tuning off as well. And the jib has battens. Etc.
What’s the easiest way to learn how to effectively trapeze?
Get a coach who knows the stuff. Find people in your area who are familiar with trapezeing (most likelly in the 420) and who can watch you sailing and tell you how not to do it. Anyone (such as myself) can give you the basics from a distance, but you need someone next to you to spot your mistakes, which you will be making a lot in the beginning.
Then you can of course watch stuff like World Sailing TV videos on Youtube, but you have to keep in mind that even top crews do make systematical mistakes. (The hardest thing about learning from successful sailors is, are they successful because they do something in a certain way - or despite it?)
Can a crew of two ~230lbs (~100kg) be able to right a turtled 470? Crew of one?
Yes. But at or below 60 kg you'll have a tough time.
Can you sail solo, single trapeze, on a 470? While flying a spinnaker?
This is one of the things that you can do, but isn't necessarily smart or even fun except as an occasional stunt. Don't try it while you're still learning the basics, with the spinnaker up, or in anything but light to medium winds.
When a 470 becomes suddenly over powered, and the skipper fails to luff the sail, would the crew on the line be brought over the hull and onto the mast/sail? Is there a safety release mechanism for this scenario? ... I can see how this can become very dangerous very quick.
The mainsheet is the first safety valve, the jib sheet the next if it's really blowing. But what you described happens usually slowly enough in a 470 (no "slingshotting" as in cats or skiffs) that the crew has time to unhook... and step directly onto the centreboard.
Why do you sail a 470?
Once upon a time, I got into the 470 because it was the natural next step as a sailor, I had a good helmsman who was in the same situation, the class was active in this country on many levels, and there was a fairly good boat for sale at our club.

I might still be/get again involved in the class if 1 ) I weighed at least 15 kg less and 2) there were others in my area who wanted to race the boat on a non-top international level. I don't expect either happening anytime soon... Which is kind of sad, because of all boats I've actively raced, the 470 has been the most satisfying overall. It requires an equal focus on boathandling/tactics/tuning, and while it's a little boring in light winds, it's the best in a breeze: it's fast, but reasonably easy to control.

It's a great boat to learn in. I hope you'll have as much fun with it as I once did.
 
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Bill Hanson

New Member
Staff member
#3
There are active 470's that race in the Midwest on a non Olympic level.
Regatta's are held at Des Plaines Il, Milwaukee, Wi and Carlyle, Il.
They race weekly as a fleet in Des Plaines, Il (5 -10 active boats)
Multiple other boats around the Midwest that race in Portsmouth handicap fleets.
I suspect that that there are other 470's around the East coast that may also race in handicap fleets.
Look at the smaller clubs that are on inland lakes, not the big name yacht clubs
There are also 8? newer 470's located in Oyster Bay, NY that are related to the Oakcliff Sailing program.
It might be worth your time to go see those boats and take pictures to see how newer boats are rigged.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#5
6 hooks around the doors. Are these mounting for the bags, or used for something else?
I would say both. The visible vertically-mounted hooks look like they are for the bags, and there's very likely another hook on each side for that, just out of sight under the mast gate.

The horizontal hooks are probably for securing the spinnaker halyard and the sheets. Now the sheets don't really need to be secured like that, and the halyard hooks are too far inboard (the idea was apparently that the halyard is secured right where it comes out of the outboard edge of the bag). Over the years, people have rigged all kinds of ingenious automatically-releasing devices for this function, involving elastic, battens, and even toothbrushes :D but that's something you don't need to worry about at this point.

In that picture, you can also see the hooks on the side tanks to which the aft outboard corner of the bag is attached (this can be tied to the trapeze elastic lead as well). There seem to be some sort of holes on the mast gate for the remaining corner.

I've always considered the bags to be permanent fittings, so I think the hooks are an unnecessary complication. However, it's been about ten years since I last had something to do with fitting out these things, so I don't know what the current standard might be. In any case, there is nothing builder-specific about this - what works on a new Mackay works on an old Morin.
 
Thread starter #6
This may be repetitive, but could you point me in the right direction for a trap kit? The laser 2 you mentioned earlier includes one side, and they have only one in stock. I’ve tried looking for 420, laser 2, 470, And a few other dinghys with no luck. (Most were sold in Europe somewhere) ~ and I now know catamaran systems won’t work. Got any suggestions?

Thanks (again).
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#7
Got any suggestions?
Yes - do it like other 470 owners do, that is, buy the parts individually. If you're getting a harness from Fogh Marine, you might as well include these in the delivery:

Trapeze Handle Standard Black Nylon
D Shackle Slot Hd 4mm W 10 L 15 BL 1100 lb
Clamcleat Racing Junior w Roller MK1
Trapeze Hoist Nova R-4094
(2 of each of the above)
Marlow Excel Pro 4mm Rope (4 metres)
Shock Cord 3/16 Rope (At least 2 m, more depending on how it's run in the cockpit. You will need this elsewhere in the boat, too.)

Not included are hull fittings that you possibly need for the take-up elastic, if the originals aren't in place anymore.
 
Thread starter #8
New question:

This probably isn’t important, but out of curiosity, how do you go about weighing a hull without damaging it or straining it in a absurd position?

Basically I want to figure out how much weight was added due to fiberglass repair (?) by previous owners of my 470. Based on other threads in this forum, an old 470 should be very flimsy and “soft” all over. Mines not, the boat doesn’t flex to my weight wherever I stand sit or push. The inside of the boat is bone dry, the foam is concealed in clear plastic covering. I’m guessing 1. this boat was over built 2. this boat has reinforced tanks since built (or) 3. the boat was never used much.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#9
3. is the correct answer, I think.

470s (like other stayed boats) lose their initial overall stiffness mainly by tensioning the rig and releasing that tension, time after time - in other words, by going sailing a lot. Side tank stiffness is largely a function of how many times it's been sat on, so that's also directly sailing-related. The bottom may go soft from long travels on a badly-supporting trailer, and freeze-thaw cycles may cause damage as well. If a 43-year-old boat doesn't flex as much as it "ought" to, it's most likely because it has been (ab)used relatively little over those years. Former owners having added material is much less plausible.

The 470 has two minimum weights: 86 kg for the bare hull (no fittings at all, so that's not relevant here), and 120 kg all-up, including everything but the sails. You could simply balance the rigged boat on its gunwale on a normal bathroom scale, but I think it's kind of pointless to weigh it in the first place. It's probably not underweight, and if it's significantly overweight, there's little you can do to it. If I were you, I'd be happy to have a stiff-feeling hull, and concentrate on other areas, such as sheeting and control systems, foils, etc.
 
Thread starter #10
I think you’re right, which is kinda weird because the boat was registered as a motor boat for several years, and received at least another gel coat, and someone had it long enough to decide to change the rigging setup.

New question: The tiller seems to be the only thing that keeps the rudder on the boat. The rudder sits on two gudgeons (which don’t ‘lock’) and the tiller slides into the box at the back of the transom constrained by two lines that raise and lower the rudder. The tiller is then captured under the transom bridge. I was concerned that if the tiller becomes loose, and detaches from the rudder, the rudder would then bounce off the gudgeons into the water, and sink like a rock :confused:. I found a solution to this, that involves using a spring steel tongue that covers the top of the gudgeon, and can be released to remove the rudder (picture). Is this legal? Has anyone ever lost a rudder before?
 

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Thread starter #12
Oddly enough I was gifted the entire trapeze system for Christmas :).


1). (Harness) The quick release, when pulled, actually let’s go of the hook entirely. (So in case of emergency, you will lose the hook definitely.) I tied a piece of shock chord around the hook, and the other end around the spreader, figureing if I ever had to pull the release, the hook would detach from the harness and wire entirely exempt the shock chord (then come back at the speed of light :confused:). Are there any other solutions to this that you know of?

2). I need to add hardware (what is this called?) to the hull to take up the slack from the shock chord retaining the wire in place. Do I need a backing board? Do they rivet into the hull? I included a picture of a 420 with the shock chord setup I had in mind. Is there an easier way? (Also, I may tie up the shock chord to the bottom of the for stay instead).

3). Crimping wire. I plan on cutting and crimping the wire thru and around the camcleat mounting hole (I included a picture of this as well), then slide a trapeze handle on top of that. Would regular ‘hardware store’ aluminum ferrule crimps (3rd picture) work/be strong enough? I’m also debating whether or not if I need a thimble loop as well (4th picture). How long should the wire be?

Thanks again!
 

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LaLi

Well-Known Member
#13
Oddly enough I was gifted the entire trapeze system for Christmas :)
Nice :D
The quick release, when pulled, actually let’s go of the hook entirely. (So in case of emergency, you will lose the hook definitely.)
Are there any other solutions to this that you know of?
Buy a couple of spare hooks and always keep one on the boat or in a pocket when you're on the water. The hook is supposed to detach completely in an emergency, so tying it anywhere defeats the purpose really. Losing the hook (or any equipment for that matter) is no fun, but it's an acceptable loss in a potentially life-threatening situation.
I need to add hardware (what is this called?) to the hull to take up the slack from the shock chord retaining the wire in place. Do I need a backing board? Do they rivet into the hull? I included a picture of a 420 with the shock chord setup I had in mind. Is there an easier way? (Also, I may tie up the shock chord to the bottom of the for stay instead).
I just call it the trapeze elastic... the class rules use "trapeze return system".
Like the spinnaker bags, elastic lines load the fittings very lightly, so there's no point in using backing plates unless the laminate is very thin and flexible.
Never rivet anything into fibreglass. Ever.
The picture of the 420 shows several don'ts:
  • the lead for the elastic on the side tank shouldn't be that close to the chainplate
  • the elastic shouldn't be tied to the lowest part of the ring
  • the height adjustment system is "upside down".
You don't see exactly how the elastic is run, but it probably simply connects to the other side in front of the mast. On a 470 you could lead it behind the bags, in front of the mast, or through a block at the mast step, but that's not quite long enough to give you enough stretch after a while when the elastic isn't "fresh" anymore. So for example, you see people running their cord(s) along the side tanks to the back of the boat. Taking it to the bow would probably be ok (and very Laser 2-ish) but I've never seen anyone do that on a 470. What I'd recommend is leading it to the mast step and then around the whole centreboard case and back to the other side. If you want to see pictures, I can post some later.
I plan on cutting and crimping the wire thru and around the camcleat mounting hole (I included a picture of this as well), then slide a trapeze handle on top of that. Would regular ‘hardware store’ aluminum ferrule crimps (3rd picture) work/be strong enough? I’m also debating whether or not if I need a thimble loop as well (4th picture). How long should the wire be?
Don't connect the wire and the cleat permanently like that; use a shackle in between them. And slide the handle on the wire before doing the end :D
Use copper crimps instead of aluminium (no corrosion).
Use a thimble.
Trapeze wire length, or functionally the handle height, is a matter of style/taste and the size of the crew. I am 178 cm tall and on the 470 I like the t-shaped handle to be just a little bit closer to the gooseneck than the spinnaker pole ring when you pull the wire tight along the mast.
 
Thread starter #16
I need to replace most of the lines within the hull (such as the daggerboard sheet, and jib sheet) since they have dry rotted. Is there a specific brand, or type/gauge of rope that is recamended? (For a not-to-competitive boat)
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#17
Is there a specific brand, or type/gauge of rope that is recamended?
Short answer: brand doesn't matter (they all make more or less similar products), type and gauge vary a lot depending on the specific application.

For the complete answer, we'd need to go through every sheeting and control system one by one (and probably redesign a few of them). But generally speaking, you want thin low-stretch rope for the primary parts of the systems, and something thicker, softer and cheaper for the cleats and your hands. 3 mm single-braid Dyneema usually works for the former, and 5 mm double-braid polyester rope for the latter purpose. For the systems that you mentioned, a 5 or 6 mm polyester rope would be ok for the centreboard line, and a 6 or 7 for the jibsheet.
 
Thread starter #18
Harken International 470 Spinnaker Bags (Set)


I believe that I touched on this earlier, but, I plan on getting spinnaker bags from Vela (since I can get free shipping in the states). I talked earlier about having to add my own mounting (probably with bolts with oversized washers at the end). What does “mounting” look like? Should the bags be removed daily?
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#19
What does “mounting” look like?
I hope this shows the general idea clearly enough:



You can see that the screws at the forward corners have big washers on the outside as well.
On this boat the inner forward corner seems to be attached to the mast gate, but on the Harken bags this screw is intended to go through the bulkhead. Not a big difference.
Also on this boat, the inner aft corner is also screwed to the mast gate, but elastic is smarter (= more durable) here. The Harkens look like they're built for the latter.
The remaining corner and the flaps also attach by elastic.
Should the bags be removed daily?
No, they're permanent equipment.
 
Thread starter #20
81309E7A-B4EA-453B-992C-0BC81F2A3842.jpeg 73F06548-FAAE-45D4-83BB-F5D08490DFE8.jpeg Am I missing something?


Over the past few weeks I’ve been cleaning my boat and rigging, today I pulled out the centreboard. It’s in basically good shape, and I was contemplating refinishing it (with stain, paint or oil?).

I noticed lots of radial scratches revolving around the centreboards axle. Is there alsupposed to be a large washer, or low-friction guide? I’ll probably end up making one. If there isn’t anything here on current 470s, what protects the boards coat?
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#22
stain, paint or oil?
Sand it, and then varnish. Repeat that a couple times (and a few more in worn areas), then wet sand it to get a smooth surface.

Now that looks like a very strange arrangement for the centreboard bolt, with the triangular pieces of metal. Either that was allowed (or even standard, though I doubt that) in 1974, or it's an original design by a previous owner. Is there a hole (probably filled-in) in the centreboard trunk where the pivot bolt is supposed to go through? How is the metal triangle on the other side attached to the board?

The class rules allow for strips (min 30o mm long, max 30 mm wide) of any material for reducing friction and/or play inside the centreboard trunk. They're customarily plastic taped along both openings.

The problem with your system seems to be that the board rests against the hard edges and corners of those metal pieces inside the trunk. You probably need to discard them and install a "regular" bolt.
 
Thread starter #23
The “triangluar pieces of metal” fit in the centreboard trunk in the orientation of a “V”. The top is sunk, so the plane of the mount, and the plane of the metal mount are flush. The inside of the trunk is also molded flush — so this was obviously a predetermined part. It does make removing the centreboard easy, just undo the bolts on top. I can’t really tell how the other triangle is attached to the first triangle, but it seems to be threaded into a bushing from both sides. Once in the trunk, the screws become captured, and can’t back out.


So tape to inside of the trunk? Or in this case, tape around the centreboard (actually on the centreboard)?

Thanks! B0344FBF-3E7D-4560-B0C0-C0ED428E7684.jpeg 8ABC6034-7A6B-4DAB-B402-ED6304CBA2E6.jpeg 76A9A3F9-1D71-46B8-BEDB-24F48B333BAB.jpeg
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#24
Interesting. That is really something that I've never seen before. Even looking at the pictures, it's still hard to say whether that was the original arrangement or not.

Even if the triangles are flush with the surface of the trunk, there's a GRP/metal discontinuity, and wood-against-metal friction. If you stick with this system, be sure to file/sand all parts so they're reasonably smooth. (You should do that anyway - there are some rough spots visible at the edge of the opening.)
After that, you can apply this kind of stuff: Japanese Glide Tape, 3/4
You place that within a few millimetres of the edges of the inside of the trunk (the bottom edge isn't straight but the tape doesn't have to follow it exactly), for more or less the whole length.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#25
Does this look familiar? :D



I was googling for 470 pictures and found many early-1970s French and Spanish boats with interesting technical/historical details... If you blow up the above picture, you see that this one has the same centreboard bolt system as yours. So it is original and was legal at least for a short time (which means that, being a structural feature, it remains legal for ever in the boats that had it in the first place).

This boat also features the short diagonal cockpit floor stringers, which seems to have been another very short-lived development. More pictures here: Etre débutant sachant débuter

(And to come back to the spinnaker bags, once again: I'm beginning to think that they had none whatsoever at the time! The hooks were then really needed for the spinnaker sheets and halyard. What a mess even a spinnaker-down capsize must have been.)
 
Thread starter #26
Ah yes, that does look very familiar :D.

These are a few pictures from a pamphlet that the previous ower had with the boat:

Interesting thought that bags were added on later, I still do plan on installing them :).

Also, there looks like a hiking strap for crew attached to the trunk support, that can’t be legal :eek:.

Thanks for the cool find!
 

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Thread starter #27
There’s a park that opens up to Lake Ontario, that is about a mile from home. The park allows canoeing/kayaking and other “non powered water sports” but no swimming. Figureing this makes sailing ok (I’ll clarify this with a park manager), I wanted to be able to drop my sailboat in the water close to home for early summer, then take it to our family cottage until October :(. In order to beach launch (by the way, I won’t be beach launching at the cottage, there’s hoists for that) I would need (?) a cradle dolly to walk it in into the water? I have a trailer. The dollies online look incredibly simple, but cost a fortune. I might just make my own.

Are there any requirements (such as length of sling, or type of padding) that I should be concerned about? Is the boat light enough to pick up without a dolly (with possibly 3 to 4 people)? How does this type of boat typically get launched? We’ve been spoiled with hoists for everything (even the sunfish has a jetski hoist :confused:).



The arrow shows the planned entry. Not a lot of room, and plenty of trees.

28814E26-A42E-4909-9565-E23D2E6DA319.jpeg
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#28
These are a few pictures from a pamphlet that the previous ower had with the boat
Great, thanks! Nice to see how it was intended to be set up. Which brings up the question I've had in mind for some time: do you want this boat to be as close as possible to the original, totally modernized, or something in between? It would help in making choices if you had a basic fitting-out philosophy like that.
there looks like a hiking strap for crew attached to the trunk support, that can’t be legal :eek:.
It is legal to fit hiking straps anywhere in the cockpit, but it isn't very smart to lead them where a trapezing crew member needs to cross the boat...
How does this type of boat typically get launched?
With a trolley, down a ramp or a beach.
Is the boat light enough to pick up without a dolly (with possibly 3 to 4 people)?
The boat weighs 120 kg, so two strong-ish people should be able to carry it for some distance, especially if a third one helps with balancing at the bow. With four it should be pretty easy.
Are there any requirements (such as length of sling, or type of padding) that I should be concerned about?
If you're going to build a trolley yourself, you will have to take the measurements for it yourself from your hull. The wheels should probably be just behind the traveller; just about any padding that doesn't wear too quickly is good, my Laser trolleys have plastic tube for the purpose and it works.
 
Thread starter #29
do you want this boat to be as close as possible to the original, totally modernized, or something in between?
Have not thought about it really... I guess my goal is to have a 1 - functional, 2 - class legal, 3 - durable, 4 - safe, 5 - clean dinghy that I can sail the life out of :D. Anything goes to achieve that. I plan on taking very good care of the boat, and expect many years despite its vintage. I put "class legal" as #2 because though I don't have any plans on racing, I may someday wash up into a yacht club, or some other sailing group (so I'll try to keep it legal, which according to you isn't as difficult as I previously thought.)

My "basic fitting-out philosophy" would be something like this:

1 - If something old makes the boat less functional, or easy to use, I would replace it/fix it/update it with modern methods.
2 - If the modification (somehow) makes the boat not class legal, look for a different alternative.
3 - If the boat has a soft tank, fix it (it has nice large inspection ports anyways :D) If fittings break, they are probably worn out/old, fix with new gear.
4 - If a rigging setup is possibly dangerous, look for an alternative (if there is one), or learn how to cope with the condition safely.
5 - Keep it clean! I have seen way too many neglected dinghies that rot away inside out just because they didn't let the water out of the hull :eek:. A clean hull also looks nice, is faster and easier to maintain in the long run.

So... in short somewhere in between, being modified as seen fit and practical.
 
Thread starter #30
So that "someday washing up into a yacht club" may happen sooner than I thought :cool:. A local club is offering a very reasonably priced program that gives you access to their fleet of twenty 420s, daily and racing on Wednesdays. First of all, I have never raced officially before so I'm not really sure what I'm getting myself into :eek:... sounds like fun though :D. Second, I figured that this opportunity may benefit me in learning skills about the 470, such as sailing efficiently with crew, and single trapping.

I realize that the 470 and 420 are different classes, however, they both involve a single trapeze, and basically the same rig (jib, main, symmetric spinnaker...). How different are these boats? Are there practices in a 420 that are not suitable for a 470?

I'm not sure whether the equipment is the "International 420" or the "Club 420" - I asked in an email. What is the difference between these two boats? Are they both single trap, symmetrical spinnaker one design like the 470? (I'm guessing that the boats are Club 420s as thats whats popular here).
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
#31
A local club is offering a very reasonably priced program that gives you access to their fleet of twenty 420s, daily and racing on Wednesdays.
Yes. That sounds very good. Do it.
I figured that this opportunity may benefit me in learning skills about the 470, such as sailing efficiently with crew, and single trapping.
Yes. The most important thing would be to get coaching, especially with the basics of trapezing. Does the club have qualified coaches?
I realize that the 470 and 420 are different classes... How different are these boats?
They're very similar - a 420 is like a 470 with half a metre cut off the bow and 25 % less sail area. (Historically it's actually the other way round: it's more like the 470 being an extended 420, as it was designed five years later.) The 420 likes obviously a somewhat smaller crew, and has simpler control systems. If you can sail either you can sail the other. It's not even much of an exaggeration to call them the "grassroots" and "elite" branches of the same class.
Are there practices in a 420 that are not suitable for a 470?
Apart from the weird custom of sheeting the jib with both sheets at once, I can't think of any.
I'm not sure whether the equipment is the "International 420" or the "Club 420" - I asked in an email. What is the difference between these two boats? Are they both single trap, symmetrical spinnaker one design like the 470? (I'm guessing that the boats are Club 420s as thats whats popular here).
As you're in the United States, these boats are most likely C420s, which is a development of the simplified and heavier boat that Vanguard had built for the US collegiate market since the early 1970s. It has a spinnaker and trapeze, but the mast is untapered, and it retains the original deck arrangement (no forward tank) that the International class ditched about 20 years ago.
But it's also posssible that those club boats are "college" equipped, which means no trapeze or spinnaker. That of course would make the program much less attractive/useful for you. But you'll find out soon.
 
Thread starter #32
Yes, they are indeed “college” equipped. However, they do race with spinnaker and trapeze in the summer within the fleet.


I have to ask about coaching, or trainers next.
 
Thread starter #33
So, the coach wants us on boats as soon as the ice thaws :eek:. Do you have any suggestions for dry suits? Or proper equipment for cold (air water combination of 100 farenheight).
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#34
Ask your sailing buddies, but I highly recommend a dry suit. I use one myself for Laser frostbiting. Of course, I capsize a lot :(
Certain dry suits should go on sale soon.
 
Thread starter #35
Went sailing today for the first time in a few months... air water combined temperatures: 60 degrees Fahrenheit. Ordered myself a drysuit :D. I also noticed that my gloves and boots weren’t all that helpful in keeping warm in and water out... once my drysuit arrives, will normal rubber boots and winter gloves adequate?
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#36
That was cold alright! My limit is ~70F (water + air).
With respect to boots, presumably the dry suit has either plain rubber or Goretex type boots attached. To protect those, you do want to have something else 'on top'. You will need to try what fits you best. I use Crocs!
Gloves are always a problem, especially when they get wet. Again, you need to experiment as the conditions for frostbiting will vary.
 
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