Vanguard version

[tom3holer]

Hi,
Newbee here and owned a Sunfish many years ago. Am looking to buy a used one now and see a very nice Vanguard version.
Is there any advice on this newer version I should keep in mind? Someone told me to steer clear of these with the rolled edge.
Any advice or suggestions greatly appreciated.

Tom
Cape Cod.

 

[beldar boathead]

Vanguard Sunfish are well-built boats, and are superior to old metal edge boats in every way - more comfortable and lighter weight being the 2 primary advantages. The newest boats are made by another company that isn’t as focused on quality, so a Vanguard is a good one to get.

 

[Dale Tanski]

But wait! they are one design???

 

[beldar boathead]

But wait! they are one design???

Good point. But is a 70 year old design, and some things have changed during that time. Multiple sail changes, culminating in the racing sail, the switch to foil-shaped boards, addition of hiking straps, harken ratchet blocks, etc. yet despite all that, updated older (heavier) boats can still win. This video shows one example.

 

[signal charlie]

Vanguard made great boats. It was their predecessor Pearson that had early issues with the rolled edge model in 1988, with cracking on the deck around the cockpit tub, but once they got the figures out many Pearson boats are favorites for folks out there.

 

[tom3holer]

Thank you all. That is very helpful.

Tom

 

[Dale Tanski]

So its all about the money. You have to race only their sails, you even have to use their sail ring clips, you have to use their blades even though they released so many different versions. Funny how they decide what is "legal" and what is not depending on where the money is flowing. Other one design classes allow anybody's sail as long as it measures in. Humm....

 

[tom3holer]

Not really interested in racing just a newer sunfish for use here on Cape Cod

 

[beldar boathead]

So its all about the money. You have to race only their sails, you even have to use their sail ring clips, you have to use their blades even though they released so many different versions. Funny how they decide what is "legal" and what is not depending on where the money is flowing. Other one design classes allow anybody's sail as long as it measures in. Humm....

Not true. It’s the class association that drives the use of the same equipment, and the class association does not derive a financial benefit. The objective is to have fair competition without having to get your sails, for example, measured in every time you go to a major championship. I believe the Lightning class sets aside a day to measure in sails and has a small task force assigned to measure the boats. Sunfish can do the measurement with one person since so much of the equipment is controlled.

It’s the same with ILCAs, RS Aeros and Melges 15s. And if you think multiple sail manufacturers would drive the cost of competitive sails down, look at Optis. Sails are $600+ since people pay more for what they think is fastest.

 

[LaLi]

they are one design?

”One-design” is kind of a stretchy concept that varies from class to class; even strict single-builder supplied classes allow some variation, including construction changes by the builder that don’t significantly affect performance.

You have to race only their sails, you even have to use their sail ring clips, you have to use their blades even though they released so many different versions.

Yes. And there’s fundamentally nothing wrong with that. The idea is to make it easier to source legal and equal equipment (although the current Sunfish builder hasn’t always lived up to that, which has certainly worked against the concept).

The sail clips can be substituted by line.

The development of new foil designs is generally seen as a good thing, and it’s only fair to keep legal everything that has ever been legal.

Funny how they decide what is "legal" and what is not

The class association (with the approval of World Sailing) decides what is legal. Not ”they” if that means the builder.

If there are severe problems between a class and its current builder/trademark holder (as there has in the Sunfish, the availability of spare parts being only one), it is a real alternative for the class to leave that problematic builder and license one or more new ones. That’s actually what all ”Laser”-named boats have done one after another, quite successfully.

Other one design classes allow anybody's sail as long as it measures in.

I can’t think of many dinghy classes established after the 1970s that do that. The level of ”one-design” that was defined by the Sunfish, the Laser and Hobie has been the norm ever since.

_