Upwind sail setup

S

Sugar

New Member
I am new to the laser class and have just purchased a brand new boat. I am working my way through the usual set up and adjustment problems that come with a new boat - but have one issue I cant resolve.
On the weekend I went out in a reasonably strong breeze (25+) and found the when working upwind I had some fluttering in the leach between the bottom 2 battens. - This is not fast !!!

I was sheeted near block to block (except in the gusts), had a fair amount of vang, cunningham maxed out and the foot was all but flat and had this problem. I thought maybe ot was due to the retainer on the clew so I tightened this up as tight as possible- problem still persisted.

Has anyone had this problem on a new sail before ..if so what am I doing wrong in my set up ?

I would like to get this sorted before I destroy the sail ! :eek:
 
25+ is hard on any sail. I think the drLaser site has some trim/set up information, but if you have a new boat and the new vang system you should have been able to crank on enough vang to stop most of that fluttering. Perhaps not all of it though. Also, if the breeze was 25 plus gusts you should not have been 2 blocked on your trim upwind. You should have had the main about 6" out.
 
'25+'
Laser sailing normally does not happen in 25 knots. I was told that at the worlds they will not send people out due to the potential damage to the charter equipment.
 
Aren't you suppose to break in the new top section in light to moderate breezes? If what I've heard is correct you'd be causing damage to your new top section.
 
In my last new boat I bent my bottom section while taking the boat out on a 20 knot day during one of my first sails. I know for sure those breezes are hell on a new sail!
 
Here's another question. What's the method of "verification" used when you say you sailed in 25 knots of steady breeze? I know there are areas where there is big breeze like the freemantle "doctor" and here in North Texas we see a lot of 15 to 20 days, but sustained 25 to 30? Not many and when it does blow like that you do not see a lot of boats out as those are survival conditions. Seriously, it might feel like 25, but it could very well be under 20. Salt water does white cap at 12 and fresh water will cap closer to 15. Big swells could be leftovers from a windy night.
 
From what I have seen, your leech either flutters or it doesn't (I don't recall seeing more then a handful that didn't flutter in 25 kts while racing in 30-40 boat fleets-they are the definite exception)

There is no sail control (vang, mainsheet, outhaul, cunningham) that will stop the leech flutter. There are ways to stop it, but they require tweaking the sail which isn't legal.

You can read more about this in the NA listserv archives here:
Listserv achives
Use the search function and search on
leech and flutter
 
Rob B said:
Here's another question. What's the method of "verification" used when you say you sailed in 25 knots of steady breeze? I know there are areas where there is big breeze like the freemantle "doctor" and here in North Texas we see a lot of 15 to 20 days, but sustained 25 to 30? Not many and when it does blow like that you do not see a lot of boats out as those are survival conditions. Seriously, it might feel like 25, but it could very well be under 20. Salt water does white cap at 12 and fresh water will cap closer to 15. Big swells could be leftovers from a windy night.
Click to expand...

You need to build your "internal" database (the one you carry around in your head) which is based on observation matched up to verification. In other words, look at indicators (waves, flags, how hard you have to pull your controls and hike, trees), take your best guess at the wind speed and then verify. You can try using the Beaufort wind scale is to match water conditions to wind speed Interactive Beaufort page from NOAA

Ways to verify ?
Any boat with an anemometer, even better if it is anchored in the vincity where you are sailing or has a true wind speed package function.
More and more yacht clubs have an anemometer or full weather recording package on site, some of the better YC's have them on RC boats.
Poll a few other sailors (try and pick ones with at least a few years under their belt)
NOAA data bouys can be a source if they are close to where you are sailing.
Airports nearby (may have to factor in height and obstructions around the windvane.
Get a cheap handheld wind speed indicator - they vary in price from about $15 to $85. I've used the $15 one and found it had decent accuracy and good repeatibility under normal circumstances
Hop in a powerboat with a speedo or GPS, bring a telltale on a stick and head downwind, hold the stick overhead, away from obstructions and when the telltale hangs limply, check the gps/speedo.
 
normally when all the parents in the clubhouse say they recorded a gust of 36 knots whilst we were out then i think you can trust them! it wasnt a good day! also being a pursuit race and with mussies and 49ers pitchpolin round u! generally tho its was 25 +!
 
on the weekend here in nova scotia it was measured up to 37, and everyone was still out sailing, including me! :)
 
i really dont recommend sailing in over 30 knots (unless you are physically conditioned to do so, which most club sailors wouldnt be). early this season i did a race in 35-40 knots and did a serious tear to my inner bicep muscle when i got a slight knock and the sail went from slightly luffing to full and wrenched at my arm.

if it had of been worse (which im lucky it wasnt) i would have been out or sailing for over a year (i still had pain in it until february this year after injuring myself in august last year, from just a tear)
 
apparently there is no upper wind limit for the laser ( this is said with no look at the written rules) and most classes have a limit if 25.

so they still raced us (all the other classes at my club didnt even bother rigging up)
 
Sugar said:
I am new to the laser class....

....I would like to get this sorted before I destroy the sail ! :eek:
Click to expand...
A new sail needs some time to spread and it is recommended to sail it in moderate conditions in order for it to spread evenly. Using your sail in adverse conditions might deform your sail. If posible use a training sail when sailing in strong winds.

As far as the fluttering in the leach is conserned don't worry. In my opinion the reasons why the leach is fluttering are (a) you have probably opened it too much by using a lot of cunningham tention and (b) the sail is new and it needs some time to spread/stretch.

...This is not fast !!!...
While beating in strong winds the most important fact that makes the boat go fast is keeping the boat as flat as posible in order to prevent drifting. There are many other factors (Body movement, steering...) but this is the most important. I don't know your body metrics but if you can handle beating 25+ by utilising fully the sail try easing off the cunningham a litle in order to close the leech.

Either way I recommend that you sail your sail in moderate conditions for about 10 times before you go out in strong winds...
 
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