upwind, light sailor
- Thread starter briscoe
- Start date
49208
Tentmaker
You're going to have provide more info that then if you want a answer that means something.
Start with your weight, height, age, time in sailing Lasers, (full or radial btw ?), conditions that you are having trouble in and you physical condition.
The more info, the better the answer, otherwise you'll get the standard "put on weight and hike harder"
Start with your weight, height, age, time in sailing Lasers, (full or radial btw ?), conditions that you are having trouble in and you physical condition.
The more info, the better the answer, otherwise you'll get the standard "put on weight and hike harder"
R
Ross B
Guest
put on weight and hike harder
if its light, you'll own
if its heavy, start prayin
if its light, you'll own
if its heavy, start prayin
R
Ross B
Guest
you should be fine in light in a radial
outhaul OFF, which means a hands length, finger tips to watch band above the first boom block
downhaul just taking the wrinkles out
and DO NOT TWO BLOCK YOUR MAIN!! you have to play it, you'll feel the speed, less than 2 feet, I cant really remember,
and kinda fuzzy on the vang, try two blocking your main, then take the slack out of your vang, then snug it up a bit more
ONLY WHEN YOU ARE HIKING can you two block
when its blowing the dog off the chain windy, crank it all on, and hike harder
only thing thats different is in the full, you can two block in light air
I suggest you sail radial, its more weight appropriate, especially if there is fleet near you, no reason for the redicilous switching back and forth, pick one and stick with it
outhaul OFF, which means a hands length, finger tips to watch band above the first boom block
downhaul just taking the wrinkles out
and DO NOT TWO BLOCK YOUR MAIN!! you have to play it, you'll feel the speed, less than 2 feet, I cant really remember,
and kinda fuzzy on the vang, try two blocking your main, then take the slack out of your vang, then snug it up a bit more
ONLY WHEN YOU ARE HIKING can you two block
when its blowing the dog off the chain windy, crank it all on, and hike harder
only thing thats different is in the full, you can two block in light air
I suggest you sail radial, its more weight appropriate, especially if there is fleet near you, no reason for the redicilous switching back and forth, pick one and stick with it
Seriously, I am underweight but have learned how to hang over the years. First of all you absolutely need to be hiking harder than everyone else if you want to have any shot at all in bigger breeze.
Another thing that helps is to crank the vang on so that as you ease the sheet the boom goes out and not up. You then have to trim very aggressively so that the boat stays on the proper angle of heel. Letting the boat heal a bunch upwind is death. Outhaul should be set so that there is a hand length between sail and boom, and the downhaul should be maxed out once you are no longer able to hold the boat flat.
Another thing that helps is to crank the vang on so that as you ease the sheet the boom goes out and not up. You then have to trim very aggressively so that the boat stays on the proper angle of heel. Letting the boat heal a bunch upwind is death. Outhaul should be set so that there is a hand length between sail and boom, and the downhaul should be maxed out once you are no longer able to hold the boat flat.
R
Ross B
Guest
"Another thing that helps is to crank the vang on so that as you ease the sheet the boom goes out and not up. "
Its called "vang sheeting" my boy
"You then have to trim very aggressively so that the boat stays on the proper angle of heel. Letting the boat heal a bunch upwind is death. "
wrong, you want the boat to be dead flat, in every condition
"Outhaul should be set so that there is a hand length between sail and boom, and the downhaul should be maxed out once you are no longer able to hold the boat flat."
outhaul can be tighter, but it depends on the conditions, in waves, you want it looser for drive, less waves, tighter to depower
Its called "vang sheeting" my boy
"You then have to trim very aggressively so that the boat stays on the proper angle of heel. Letting the boat heal a bunch upwind is death. "
wrong, you want the boat to be dead flat, in every condition
"Outhaul should be set so that there is a hand length between sail and boom, and the downhaul should be maxed out once you are no longer able to hold the boat flat."
outhaul can be tighter, but it depends on the conditions, in waves, you want it looser for drive, less waves, tighter to depower
First of all, don't call me boy again. Secondly, I know its called vang sheeting but I felt that describing the technique would do more to help briscoe.
Yes, exactly. The point I was making was that you sail be boat based on heal, not on what the sail looks like. This is a huge mistake that most people make once they have become overpowered. Look at what I said right after what you quoted.
I have never had success with the sail strapped on tighter than this. I suppose if you are sailing with an older sail it may work though.
R
Ross B
Guest
"Yes, exactly. The point I was making was that you sail be boat based on heal, not on what the sail looks like. This is a huge mistake that most people make once they have become overpowered. Look at what I said right after what you quoted."
I have never had success with this, I sail it based on how much power I need, if I need more, I loosen the DL and OH, if I need more power in waves, I loosen the OH, and so on
"I have never had success with the sail strapped on tighter than this. I suppose if you are sailing with an older sail it may work though."
again it all depends on condition, and if you're using a full or radial
and I can assure you"my boy" was not meant in a derogatory way
also, it depends on personal preference
I have never had success with this, I sail it based on how much power I need, if I need more, I loosen the DL and OH, if I need more power in waves, I loosen the OH, and so on
"I have never had success with the sail strapped on tighter than this. I suppose if you are sailing with an older sail it may work though."
again it all depends on condition, and if you're using a full or radial
and I can assure you"my boy" was not meant in a derogatory way
also, it depends on personal preference
49208
Tentmaker
Full rig in light air - important that you understand the relationship between mastbend via mainsheet and mastbend via vang. The following article explains in detail
http://www.roostersailing.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=rig&Store_Code=1
(the trick is learning at what windspeed you go from bending the mast with boom vang (very light air) to bending the mast with mainsheet (somewhere between 4 and 8 kts) Once you figure that out, in conjunction w/ proper mainsheet tension, you should be faster then heavier people upwind until about 10 knots.
In heavy air, you are going to have to accept the physics of the situation. At 145 lbs, you are going to be overpowered at about 10-12kts and have to start depowering by tightening controls, which hurts speed and point compared to the heavier people. Your goal should not be to be in the lead at the top mark in over 12 kts, but to be close enough to the leaders that your offwind speed is enough to make up the distance (or even extend into the lead)
At 15kts, the people in your weight range in our fleet (Cedar Point) are faster around the course in a Radial then they are in a Full rig. They are also having more fun in the Radial in that breeze. The crossover point in wind strength seems to be about 12-14 kts for similar weight.
If feel my upwind performance is such that they tend to attach themselves to my hull by the end of the first beat (at least that's my story/justification).
Ian
R
Ross B
Guest
back on topic....
what settings do you currently use for your outhaul, downhaul, vang, etc briscoe?
that might make it easier for me to aid you in getting better overall
what settings do you currently use for your outhaul, downhaul, vang, etc briscoe?
that might make it easier for me to aid you in getting better overall
R
Ross B
Guest
like how is it all set up for wind conditions, hows your outhaul at drifter conditions, 5 knots, 10, 15, 20, same for downhaul, outhaul, mainsheet. how loose/tight are they?
R
Ross B
Guest
word son
well, in light air, i'm usually loose on the vang and outhaul, take the wrinkles out with the downhaul, main in but not two blocked, wieght forward
in heavy air, i'm as tight as i can go and i do my best to hike out as hard as i can, wieght not as forward as in light air, a little further back
in heavy air, i'm as tight as i can go and i do my best to hike out as hard as i can, wieght not as forward as in light air, a little further back
R
Ross B
Guest
in light air, with the vang, two block the main, and take all the slack out of the vang, then pull it on a bit more, than play the main like you normally would, this applies for radial and full
the reason for this is that the sail was built with curve into it, and it needs that shape to get flow over the sail, even in light wind
in light, sit a bit farther forward, near the centerboard
if your sailing fulls in heavy air, the problem is your too light, sail a radial, its what they were designed for
the reason for this is that the sail was built with curve into it, and it needs that shape to get flow over the sail, even in light wind
in light, sit a bit farther forward, near the centerboard
if your sailing fulls in heavy air, the problem is your too light, sail a radial, its what they were designed for
R
Ross B
Guest
all a mind game, if you want to do well, you have to have winning thoughts, and you cant over think, if your thinking your not sailing, it should all come naturally
easier said than done lol
easier said than done lol
R
Ross B
Guest
in light wind, do the vang thing I told you
everything else sounds fine, there are several dvds and books out there that can also help
its kind of hard to go much further online
everything else sounds fine, there are several dvds and books out there that can also help
its kind of hard to go much further online
Well going by these comments:
You could experiment with the outhaul in heavy weather. The fastest way to come to a stop is to overtighten the outhaul. Most people overtighten in a bid to sail as survivalists. It's an admiral approach, but it isn't fast unless everyone else capsizes. The only way to sail as a speedster on the edge is to practice more in heavier winds. Take easy steps for you, work your way up. You're the skipper afterall, not the rest of club.
Also more time spent sailing is a lot more interesting than doing situps in the gym. You can work out your leg muscles and abdominals if you like that sort of thing, but being able to hike longer and harder means you have to go and hike.
You could experiment with the positioning of your weight. A lot depends on the waves conditions too. Light winds can also correspond with a leftover short chop, which will naturally slow you down.
Perhaps a good exercise would be to go out on a comfortable wind day for you, not light, not heavy, whatever you feel comfortable and fastest in.
(You're only 65kg, remember, you can't expect to perform like a 82kg gorilla.)
Choose a location where there will be almost no waves. Then position your weight at different positions in the cockpit and look at the wake leaving your stern.
Start on a reach, keep the boat flat, and observe the wake. It should be flat and making a clean triangular shape as it leaves the boat. Move your weight and see how that effects the wake.
Next start heading up a bit and inspect the wake again. Keep the boat flat. Now the triangle may have bubbly edges and appear to rise up from the back of the boat a bit more. Again move your weight and see how that effects things.
Next point as high as you can, still keeping the boat flat. Observe the wake again. Experiment with your weight again.
What you're looking at is the inbuilt speedometer of the laser.
When the wake is flat and clean, you're at full speed for the conditions. When the wake is bubly and white and near the trailing edge of the rudder, you're going slower.
Once you've seen the wake in flat water, try the exercise again in waves.
Now you have an accurate way of knowing how fast you really are going. You don't need to think like you're going slow, because you may be at full speed for the conditions.
Bad air from the start is a killer for the pros and beginners. There's nothing you can do about it except learn how to get out of it as fast as possible. It isn't a reflection on your sail trimming.
You could experiment with the outhaul in heavy weather. The fastest way to come to a stop is to overtighten the outhaul. Most people overtighten in a bid to sail as survivalists. It's an admiral approach, but it isn't fast unless everyone else capsizes. The only way to sail as a speedster on the edge is to practice more in heavier winds. Take easy steps for you, work your way up. You're the skipper afterall, not the rest of club.
Also more time spent sailing is a lot more interesting than doing situps in the gym. You can work out your leg muscles and abdominals if you like that sort of thing, but being able to hike longer and harder means you have to go and hike.
You could experiment with the positioning of your weight. A lot depends on the waves conditions too. Light winds can also correspond with a leftover short chop, which will naturally slow you down.
Perhaps a good exercise would be to go out on a comfortable wind day for you, not light, not heavy, whatever you feel comfortable and fastest in.
(You're only 65kg, remember, you can't expect to perform like a 82kg gorilla.)
Choose a location where there will be almost no waves. Then position your weight at different positions in the cockpit and look at the wake leaving your stern.
Start on a reach, keep the boat flat, and observe the wake. It should be flat and making a clean triangular shape as it leaves the boat. Move your weight and see how that effects the wake.
Next start heading up a bit and inspect the wake again. Keep the boat flat. Now the triangle may have bubbly edges and appear to rise up from the back of the boat a bit more. Again move your weight and see how that effects things.
Next point as high as you can, still keeping the boat flat. Observe the wake again. Experiment with your weight again.
What you're looking at is the inbuilt speedometer of the laser.
When the wake is flat and clean, you're at full speed for the conditions. When the wake is bubly and white and near the trailing edge of the rudder, you're going slower.
Once you've seen the wake in flat water, try the exercise again in waves.
Now you have an accurate way of knowing how fast you really are going. You don't need to think like you're going slow, because you may be at full speed for the conditions.
Bad air from the start is a killer for the pros and beginners. There's nothing you can do about it except learn how to get out of it as fast as possible. It isn't a reflection on your sail trimming.
R
Ross B
Guest
good call saw, now just add that to having properly flowing telltales at all times, and you should be good to go upwind
Upwind in a breeze, a Laser is just like a kayak or a bicycle.....the more energy you put in, the more speed you get out. Compared to many other boats, it requires an enormous amount of tiller movement to stop the boat slamming in waves. Going up each wave, the tiller goes down, (you don't normally push away, just release the tension holding it against the weather helm), the mainsheet comes in a touch (while maintaining the correct heel ie very little) and the upper body goes aft to allow the bow to rise up the wave easily.
As the bow reaches the crest, you swing the upper body forward to push the bow down (allowing the bow to hang up in the air means it will hang up there until it slams down into the next wave and stops you); pull the helm to windward; and ease main to bear away and keep the boat flat.
I have no idea what it's like at 65kg, but at 70kg and 5'7" you can be very fast upwind in these conditions against anyone.
I would say vang, vang and more vang, but that does put you in a very high-pointing mode with a very fine groove. On the plus side, it can be physically easier to work the mainsheet as all of the vertical loads are going on the vang.
Correct helming is very important....the groove is about very narrow (ie if you have the bow 1" or less too far upwind or downwind, you'll be slow) and constantly changing for each wave and gust and for different tactical situations. This takes hours of training.
Ignore the telltales in a breeze, and sail by power and heel.
As the bow reaches the crest, you swing the upper body forward to push the bow down (allowing the bow to hang up in the air means it will hang up there until it slams down into the next wave and stops you); pull the helm to windward; and ease main to bear away and keep the boat flat.
I have no idea what it's like at 65kg, but at 70kg and 5'7" you can be very fast upwind in these conditions against anyone.
I would say vang, vang and more vang, but that does put you in a very high-pointing mode with a very fine groove. On the plus side, it can be physically easier to work the mainsheet as all of the vertical loads are going on the vang.
Correct helming is very important....the groove is about very narrow (ie if you have the bow 1" or less too far upwind or downwind, you'll be slow) and constantly changing for each wave and gust and for different tactical situations. This takes hours of training.
Ignore the telltales in a breeze, and sail by power and heel.