sorry if this is re-visiting an old thread. I'm concerned about the angle my tiller makes in the rudder head, it seems to be higher than it needs to be to ride just above the clam-cleat for the traveller. My tiller is a rooster carbon. I haven't got any pics handy but will post if that helps. Anyone with experience with this? Options?
tiller angle with deck
- Thread starter bplaxton
- Start date
Clive Humphris
ILCA Technical
Many carbon tillers will need to be adjusted to your particular boat. I try to aim for a clearance of 20 to 25mm in a free condition. In practise, when closed hauled and some significant traveller tension (to get the mainsheet block to the corner of the boat) the traveller will deflect the tiller downwards and close the gap to maybe 15 to 20mm depending on the stiffness or your tiller. This adjustement can be achieved by careful sanding and packing. Try to err on the generous clearance side of the equation as there is nothing more annoying than a tiller that touches the cleat.
R
Ross B
Guest
I would just leave it, unless we're talkin 5-10 inches off the deck, its not going to win or loose a race for you
pics would really help here
pics would really help here
The gap between my tiller and the cleat is about 10-15mm at present.
It's a carbon tiller, and was even closer than that. SOme speed demon who owned the boat before me had the tiller so low at the rudder head it began to rub off the gel coat on the top edge of the transom. What was more irritating was the bowline holding the traveller together rubbing it. Occasionally, it would hit the top of the cleat, but this was mainly because of the bad fit in the rudder head.
So I turned the top gudgeon over, it's top face had started to wear, and resized the end of the tiller with epoxy resin/black pigment/glue powder. The black pigment keeps it looking uniform black and spunky as can be.
Works like a dream. The extra height at the transom helps it clear the bowline without losing too much at the cleat end.
We're talking 2-3mm here.
1mm shaved off the head end translates to about 4mm height at the cleat end.
So take it easy when you're shaping it. Make sure the faces are flat and parallel.
I calculate I gained about 0.000987kn
It's a carbon tiller, and was even closer than that. SOme speed demon who owned the boat before me had the tiller so low at the rudder head it began to rub off the gel coat on the top edge of the transom. What was more irritating was the bowline holding the traveller together rubbing it. Occasionally, it would hit the top of the cleat, but this was mainly because of the bad fit in the rudder head.
So I turned the top gudgeon over, it's top face had started to wear, and resized the end of the tiller with epoxy resin/black pigment/glue powder. The black pigment keeps it looking uniform black and spunky as can be.
Works like a dream. The extra height at the transom helps it clear the bowline without losing too much at the cleat end.
We're talking 2-3mm here.
1mm shaved off the head end translates to about 4mm height at the cleat end.
So take it easy when you're shaping it. Make sure the faces are flat and parallel.
I calculate I gained about 0.000987kn
R
Ross B
Guest
the existing clearance at the rear of the transom is minimal, so I don't think re-shaping the tiller where it enters the rudder head is going to help much, unless I used spacer(s) to raise the rudder head in relation the gudgeons, which I think is legal. If I reshaped it for a lower angle without raising the rudder head position it would hit the deck at the end of the transom. I expect that trying to bend the tiller is not a good option? The other thing that's occured to me to try is spacing out the lower gudgeon a bit with respect to the transom ie position the lower gudgeon a bit further to the rear using a spacer between it and the hull, but this is likely illegal.
If you space out the lower gudgeon, you'll change the angle of the rudder leading edge. If you can do it so it remains within the rules then I guess it would be fine. Not sure if that's possible.
Yes I've seen that through bad tiller design and plastic gudgeon wear - which is why I turned my top gudgeon over to start with. It bought me an extra millimetre.
But someone had also used a router to cut rebates into the bottom corners of the tiller, where it sits in the rudder head, so it would sit lower on the aluminium egdes of the rudder head cheeks. I gained about 3mm by replacing those corners. No more problem.
They had even gone so far as to remove the carbon roller that once sat in the tiller and filled the gap with cedar. I routed out the cedar and replaced it with carbon, then shaped and epoxied on a small piece of stainless steel to cover the area of highest wear from the traveller rope.
Dunno why the stainless rubbing pads on stock tillers are so big. mine is only about 60mm long and works fine. The amount of timea tiller is moved greater than 30 degrees from centre is low.
Yes I've seen that through bad tiller design and plastic gudgeon wear - which is why I turned my top gudgeon over to start with. It bought me an extra millimetre.
But someone had also used a router to cut rebates into the bottom corners of the tiller, where it sits in the rudder head, so it would sit lower on the aluminium egdes of the rudder head cheeks. I gained about 3mm by replacing those corners. No more problem.
They had even gone so far as to remove the carbon roller that once sat in the tiller and filled the gap with cedar. I routed out the cedar and replaced it with carbon, then shaped and epoxied on a small piece of stainless steel to cover the area of highest wear from the traveller rope.
Dunno why the stainless rubbing pads on stock tillers are so big. mine is only about 60mm long and works fine. The amount of timea tiller is moved greater than 30 degrees from centre is low.
here are some pics (finally!) to illustrate my issue. I noticed that my gudgeons (especially top one) were worn so I turned them upside down and tiller action now has much less slop. Didn't help at all with the height issue though.
Measurements:
top of clam-cleat - bottom of tiller (traveller loose) 1-3/8"
top of clam-cleat - bottom of tiller (traveller tight) 1-1/16"
aft deck - bottom of tiller (traveller loose) 3/32"
aft deck - bottom of tiller (traveller tight) ~1/16"
I see 3 reasonable options at this point
1. leave it and live with it, its not that different than others (comments?)
2. try to heat and permanently bend tiller a few inches from where it enters the rudder head
3. drill out rivets in top frame of rudder block to reposition tiller angle slightly. I have a few more pics but uploading is slow right now.
Measurements:
top of clam-cleat - bottom of tiller (traveller loose) 1-3/8"
top of clam-cleat - bottom of tiller (traveller tight) 1-1/16"
aft deck - bottom of tiller (traveller loose) 3/32"
aft deck - bottom of tiller (traveller tight) ~1/16"
I see 3 reasonable options at this point
1. leave it and live with it, its not that different than others (comments?)
2. try to heat and permanently bend tiller a few inches from where it enters the rudder head
3. drill out rivets in top frame of rudder block to reposition tiller angle slightly. I have a few more pics but uploading is slow right now.
Attachments
I would leave it...when you have cranked on a load of traveller tension that will pull it down towards the cleat no end. One of my laser sailing colleagues is on his third tiller...first two new ones banged on the cleat....very annoying!! Last one now seems OK so low is not always best you can go too low!