S Turning & Sailing by the lee - it works!!

K

knot_moving

Member
Had a great time Sunday in about 10-15kts, gusting as high as 20. Waves were pretty small as we were sailing in a bayou (yes I'm in the south!)

Anyway after a year and a half of sailing lasers I finally had a day where I was able to actually do some S turns and sail by the lee! What A BLAST !!

What seemed to work was going more by the lee in the puffs & this is when I would get up and surf down a wave and even get up on a plane occasionally, then when I came off the wave or slowed bcause I was in a lull, I would reach up pretty hard (30 deg change in direction, maybe a little more) and off I would go, once up to speed I would try to catch a wave and go by the lee.

I wasn't very successful timing the waves , maybe getting one out of 4 tries, but whenever I got into a puff I would be able to steer down by the lee and off I would go!!

All I can say is that as much fun as sailing a laser has been up till now its just added a whole new dimension of fun and can't wait till I can get back out.

Now my question is what do I do when the winds are a lot lighter - do I still sail angles and S turns or do I go more dead downwind?
 
knot_moving said:
Now my question is what do I do when the winds are a lot lighter - do I still sail angles and S turns or do I go more dead downwind?
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My experience has been that sailing dead downwind is slow in any conditions. In light air I think you want to concentrate on sailing fast angles; either by-the-lee or very broad reaching. The idea is to keep air moving smoothly over your sail. If you sail dead downwind you will generate an area of stagnant flow behind the sail, with vortices shedding off both sides which is slower than sailing at an angle. You can still alternate angles between high and low to take advantage of puffs, shifts, wind shadows, etc.
 
knot_moving said:
Now my question is what do I do when the winds are a lot lighter - do I still sail angles and S turns or do I go more dead downwind?
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As with all things sailing it depends but there are a few principles that I think are generally accepted.

    1. In non planing conditions sail pretty straight lines with a tendency to head up in the lulls so that you can bear away in the puffs thus prolonging your time sailing in the stronger wind.
    2. In marginal sailing conditions sail any damn angle you need to promote planing on the waves or gusts and correct your course in the bits you can't plane in.
    3. In continuous planing conditions go for it down every wave - the wave direction will take you down wind and on most courses you can sail some extreme angles for maximum speed and be amazed at how little course correction you need to make it to the leeward mark.
    4. When sailing by the lee the above all holds true but remember that by heading more by the lee you are actually pointing up so in scenario 1 this is ideally for the lulls not the gusts.
 
sailchris said:
My experience has been that sailing dead downwind is slow in any conditions. In light air I think you want to concentrate on sailing fast angles; either by-the-lee or very broad reaching. The idea is to keep air moving smoothly over your sail. If you sail dead downwind you will generate an area of stagnant flow behind the sail, with vortices shedding off both sides which is slower than sailing at an angle. You can still alternate angles between high and low to take advantage of puffs, shifts, wind shadows, etc.
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I think you have a point but in non-planing conditions I don't believe that the marginal speed increase by sailing say 10° off dead down wind will compensate for the extra distance sailed. However in most racing situations it is extremely rare to be going dead down wind for long. I do think that in light wind if you are sailing 'just off' dead downwind for tactical or course reasons it definitely pays to be by the lee even when 'off' by as much as 20°. However I've only just decided this and I'm still practising.
 
Wildbank said:
Can someone define "sailing to the lee". I am new to the term although I may be doing this instinctively.
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Here's a diagram:

fig11.gif
 
Wildbank said:
Thanks so much for the diagram. So, the S-Turn would mean that you alternate between sailing straight downwind and "sailing to the lee" (with the wind coming from your back). Is this correct?
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By the way, I just returned to Texas after visiting my brother in Scituate, MA. What a great place to sail.
 
Actually you want to alternate between broad reaching and sailing by the lee. The hotter angles give you the speed to catch the next wave.
When you are sailing by the lee you reverse the flow of air across your sail so the leech becomes the leading edge. You can put a telltale up there and watch it stream 'backwards' to get the hang of it.
Also, by the lee is actually more stable in heavy air, although getting there can be scary.
 
The hot guys use any residual chop in sub-planing conditions to 'pump' the rig (set up with minimal vang and steering pricipally by sheet and weight distribution) so they continuous cycles of get power and release/recovery. In very flat water you can get this by rocking (illegal) but it seems that in residual chop international juries consider these guys are just surfing chop (NOT!) anyway it looks demented but seems to be fast if you keep in sync.
 
I agree sailing bye the lee really works, but is it fatser than a broad reach on the other gybe?
I know that there can be tactical benefits from bye the lee sailing and I also know that the transitions from BTL to broad reaching can give you a great pump to catch a wave, but in my (humble) experience, broad reaching is quicker than BTL, and if I have to sail for any time BTL, I will normally try to gybe to get onto a broad reach on the other gybe. I'd be interested if anyone has found similar.
 
oatsandbeans said:
I agree sailing bye the lee really works, but is it fatser than a broad reach on the other gybe?
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I think the answer is "yes". The basic aerodynamic benefit of BTL sailing is that instead of using the vang/kicker to tighten the leach, you let the rigid mast take care of that for you.

I actually prefer sailing BTL when I'm downwind, but that's personal preference and YMMV.

The best article I know of on the subject is:
http://www.roostersailing.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=4thdim&Store_Code=1

Cheers,

Geoff S.
 
oatsandbeans said:
I agree sailing bye the lee really works, but is it fatser than a broad reach on the other gybe?
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In a VMG sense, yes it will be faster. In an outright-speed-look-out-here-I-come-no-direction-necessary sense, no I don't think it is.

Is sailing by the lee faster than broad reaching on the same tack?

Probably not. I haven't used any electronics to confirm it, but it seems a bit slower. Certainly the more vang you loosen in winder conditions(conditons for continuous planning) will reduce your possible BTL speed - not including surfing waves.
 
I have to agree with Saw.

I have found that in most cases it seems faster in a straight line to broad reach, than it does to go BTL.
If its a flat run, then I guess the decision on when/if to gybe is purely tactical, as in my experience even a good, tidy gybe will cost time.

BTL when its really blowing does seem safer though, although the transitions both ways are a bit scary, especially on the Severn with 30knots and wind against tide, where I've literally been washed off my boat by a wave!
 
I don't know if I can articulate this very well but here goes -- when I am sailing by the lee I find that I am pushing the tiller to windward so that the rudder feels as though it has ?weather helm? in order to keep the boat headed in the direction I want to go. This seems to be wrong as I must be creating drag with the rudder. i.e. the sail is on port, the telltales are streaming towards the mast, the wind is coming from the port side, the starboard gunwall is heeled down nearly in the water and I am pushing the tiller to the port side to maintain my direction downwind.

What should I be doing instead, gybe and go onto a broad reach?:confused:
 
Sounds like you are just heeling too far. Heel just enough to keep the boat going in the direction you want. You shouldn't have the "gunwall nearly in the water" to go in a straight line - at least I don't on my boat. You don't have to have the boat greatly heeled to sail BTL.
 
Merrily said:
What do you mean by "kiting"?
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Sorry Merrily my brief previous post was made filling a few free seconds and I hadn't seen the other (better) post by abenn or read pirouette's fully. Kiting (I'm not sure of the spelling) is the modern coaches term for heeling downwind to put the COE (sails centre of effort) over the CLR (hulls centre of lateral resistance). I know it’s only the terminology you are questioning and it’s all new to me but I think that's the gist of it.

Can we fit spinnakers and do away with the practice please?
 
pirouette said:
this seems to be wrong as I must be creating drag with the rudder
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I often wonder about this myself. I tried sailing flatter, to get things perfectly in balance, but to me, it seemed slower compared to other boats around. In the very light, I think it makes sense to heel right over, because the drag from the rudder at the speed we are moving would be probably less than a few gram (ounces?) whereas the increase in high up sail area would more than offset this.

Obvously as soon as the breeze starts to build the drag increases very quickly, and you'll need to flatten the boat to (a) stop it corkscrewing around into a gybe, and (b) reduce the drag. Also, if you do this every time you get a little gust (in a drifter) you can effectively get a little pump from the rig ;)

This seems to work for me, most times!
 
pirouette said:
I don't know if I can articulate this very well but here goes -- when I am sailing by the lee I find that I am pushing the tiller to windward so that the rudder feels as though it has ?weather helm? in order to keep the boat headed in the direction I want to go. This seems to be wrong as I must be creating drag with the rudder. i.e. the sail is on port, the telltales are streaming towards the mast, the wind is coming from the port side, the starboard gunwall is heeled down nearly in the water and I am pushing the tiller to the port side to maintain my direction downwind.

What should I be doing instead, gybe and go onto a broad reach?:confused:
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vang is too loose.

let the boat steer the way it wants to go and watch the tell tails. You'll acelerate away and they will stay by the lee. Apparent wind moves forward as you acelerate, no chance of death roll.

Find the place in your groove where you just start to drop from windward heel back into leeward heel. "Bounce" in and out of that limit with regard to waves. You should be able to sit on the windward coaming in normal postion and have the sail balance your weight.
 
Chainsaw said:
vang is too loose
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Really? I'm gonna try that next weekend!

I normally sail downwind with very little vang on, and dont struggle too much for pace, but I'm willing to try anything! :)

Sadly there's no racing at my club this weekend as its dark both times the tide comes in, both days!

Hey Saw, I'm coming home for a few weeks in June/July '08 to see the family. If you know of anyone with an old laser lying around the yard I'll be happy to borrow it and follow you around a race track! ;)
 
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