O
... Whilst someone said that the other skipper was trying to intimidate you, I'd say the reverse with you calling him a big baby, I have less of an issue over the use of the F word when in the context used.
I'd be more tempted to blow both of you from the race and for simplicity I'd do it over the tacking incident and lack of a valid protest, rather than the more messy (from the perspective of the official requirements involved) rule 69 incident.
Not having the rules to hand, I thought Rule 69 used the word Gross (i.e. your offence has to a major and significant). The use of F... or Big Baby is not really Gross (just work on a building site for 20 mins). How many parents have told their 4 year old children they are being "a big baby" and yet Social Services routinely fail to act on this and to my knowledge have never yet taken any children into care due to this "Gross Abuse" and if a 4 year old kid can take it I would hope a 45+ year old can survive without too much therapy.
What's acceptable in one situation is not necessarily acceptable in another. Go tell a police officer or a judge to F' off or that they're a big baby might get a completely different response to what would occur on a building site. From my understanding from discussions with IJ's, ISAF is wanting to move to a zero tolerance on swearing and bad sportsmanship, while I doubt it will ever be policeable, I'm still strongly in favour of seeing the standards of behaviour on and off the water improve in our sport.
There has been at least one competitor that has been given a 2 year ban for using the F word in the context of "get that F boat out of my way" to a judge boat which was preventing the competitor from tacking.
That said, only a protest committee can lodge a Rule 69 protest, but they can initiate that upon information provided to them. So the protest by the competitor is invalid, but that does not prevent the protest committee from initating their own protest. It also appears that you failed to lodge a valid protest for the sailing incident, which the protest committee can also initate a protest upon them being made aware of the situation.
On how all the above is described, if I was on a protest committee where this information was presented, I'd seriously consider initiating a protest against both competitors. Firstly, tacking inside the 3 boat lengths is dangerous when in the vicinity of other boats and needs to be stamped out, second your verbal behaviour and aggression following the incident is unacceptable and also needs to be stamped out, finally you also failed to lodge a valid protest as did the other competitor. Whilst someone said that the other skipper was trying to intimidate you, I'd say the reverse with you calling him a big baby, I have less of an issue over the use of the F word when in the context used.
I'd be more tempted to blow both of you from the race and for simplicity I'd do it over the tacking incident and lack of a valid protest, rather than the more messy (from the perspective of the official requirements involved) rule 69 incident.
If you lodge a protest you stand a 50/50 chance of surviving. If a protest is lodged against you, you chances of surviving drops to 33%. It's better to avoid getting into the situation in the first place or doing your turns (and then protesting if you feel you were in the right).
In my opinion swearing on the water within earshot of other boats whilst racing is a cardinal sin and should be stamped out.
I hope you're not including a crew swearing amongst themselves...
I am...but if they are being quiet about it then it is no problem. The lake I sail on you can hear someone shout from the far side on a still day. We also have lots of family and youth members so I feel we should lead by example.
FWIW I do occasionally curse to myself when I have made a silly error (normally resulting in a swim).
In my opinion swearing on the water within earshot of other boats whilst racing is a cardinal sin and should be stamped out. There are far too many excuses made for bad and anti-social behaviour.
(Begin ramble - again 'cos I feel strongly about this)
I would disagree on the grounds that this is about sailing and not teaching people and enforcing good language. Maybe we should start getting protests for bad grammar. I go out to sail. I tend not to curse but on occasions I do and in the heat of the moment a bit of language does nobody any harm.
I would also argue that banning bad language in Europe contravenes people's human rights. It effectively discriminates against certain types of disability (e.g. Tourette syndrome). (Maybe you have to live in Europe to get the "Human Rights" thing).
And I know I'm getting stupid here, but so are people who start thinking others should be disqualified for something like uttering a F word. Try not to but keep life in balance and enjoy the sport, even if you do happen to overhear a little language. Get penalised for breaking the rules of sailing (and for Rule 69 is says GROSS). Don't start disqualifying people for their vocabulary - maybe try to discourage it but Rule 69 !! If somebody is OTT - well that applied to life, the person next to you on the train, etc. and has nothing to do with sailing.
I really think if protest hearings started because somebody uttered a swear word at somebody else in frustration - I would give up the sport and it would have become just silly. Loads of other fun things to do where people can be themselves, relax and have fun.
Ian
So, if you were a female and someone called you an
"effing stupid c**t"
during a regatta, that would be ok ?
How about if you're the 10 year old opti sailor who is called the:
"effing little pencil d**k"
by a 13 yr old opti sailor ?
What about verbal threatening with /or without swearing.
"If I find you in the boat park, after this race I'll beat the bloody snot of you"
Maybe funny if this is being said to you by some snot nosed pimply teenager and you are the 220 lb mixed martial arts champ, but what if it's the other way around ?
Did I end up in Sailing Anarchy somehow?
Those examples you gave are nowhere close to the context in which 'f***' was used in situation found in the opening post.
They are also the extreme of the scenario. Basically, you used examples not completely pertinent to the thread.
If I'm a MMA champ, what do I care what I say to someone, or someone says to me? If they want to get tough about it, I touch'em with the jab.
How did that even come up? Wehn would you encounter a MMArtist on the race course?
So, if you were that girl, (or perhaps another competitor who heard her being called that) would you consider filing a protest ?
And why or why not ?
So, if you were a female and someone called you an
"effing stupid c**t"
during a regatta, that would be ok ?
How about if you're the 10 year old opti sailor who is called the:
"effing little pencil d**k"
by a 13 yr old opti sailor ?
What about verbal threatening with /or without swearing.
"If I find you in the boat park, after this race I'll beat the bloody snot of you"
Maybe funny if this is being said to you by some snot nosed pimply teenager and you are the 220 lb mixed martial arts champ, but what if it's the other way around ?
Hi Folks,
Any debate of the rules should list the rule..
"When a protest committee, from its own observation or a report received from any source, believes that a competitor may have committed a gross breach of a
rule, good manners or sportsmanship, or may have brought the sport into disrepute, it may call a hearing. "
Cursing is not a good mannered course of action. It can bring the sport, your club, your sponsor, your boat or you into disrepute. It is clearly not allowed. Don't curse.
You have to consider the word GROSS in the rule. Is a curse in frustration a GROSS breach of the rules ? Its a question of degree.