Roll-tacking a Sunfish

[Wavedancer]

Does the attached picture show a common technique among high-level racers? Or is this guy thinking he is sailing a Laser?

To rephrase my question: Is roll tacking as shown on the attached picture faster in ~1-10 mph winds?

PS: Let's not get into a discussion of rule 42 for the time being.
PS#2: The picture is from the 2005 Worlds in Martinique.

 

[sailorf2]

Yea. I have seen many people roll tack so the boat is healed that much. Ive also seen then so they arnt healed much at all and it really dosent seem to make a difference as long as you time it right. I would think in lower winds you would want to heal it over more to get the sail over faster. But i could easley be wrong.

 

[58984 EW]

Especially in light air that kind of heel at the end of a roll tack can give you a good squirt foward if you flatten the boat with the right "tempo"

 

[NE Sunfish]

Sorry but I can't possibly comment on this picture and your question without bringing rule 42 into it!

Here is the deal...from this one still photo we do not have enough evidence to condemn this tack...however, unless this sailor flattened his boat out VERY VERY slowly (hardly likely) then this was most likely an illegal tack.

If you want to know if roll tacking is good...well in most cases yes.

...but if you want to know if the tack pictured is good...well, not if it's not legal.

Personally I think rule 42 is the single most abused rule in the book, too many sailors take advantage of their competitors lack of desire to go to the room...be for warned if you illegally tack with in view of me I WILL protest you!!

The rules are the rules and we can not simply ignore the ones we don't like.

Sorry for the rant...

 

[Esteroali]

OK. where can I find out what rule 42 is.....

 

[NE Sunfish]

US Sailing 2005-08 RRS

 

[58984 EW]

My understanding after re-reading this rule is that this kind of roll tack is only illegal if the boat ends up going faster after the tack then it was before the tack.

 

[sailorf2]

It would be very hard to get the boat going faster right after the tack then right before it. That would also be very hard to measure.

 

[Old Geezer]

It's very easy in light air to roll tack a Sunfish so it comes out of the tack faster than it went into it. And it's also very easy to see someone doing this. And, like John Fonseca, I will protest you if I see you doing it - and I will get two witnesses to support my protest - and you will get thrown out of the race.

 

[Noodles]

Welcome back, OG.

 

[58984 EW]

I thought we were assuming it was legal, and discussing whether the boat would pick up speed with such a severe heel. I'd file a protest, but I don't have a pen.

 

[Old Geezer]

You can borrow my pen and I'll be your witness. What do you want me to say?

 

[sailorf2]

It's very easy in light air to roll tack a Sunfish so it comes out of the tack faster than it went into it. And it's also very easy to see someone doing this. And, like John Fonseca, I will protest you if I see you doing it - and I will get two witnesses to support my protest - and you will get thrown out of the race.

My question is how could u prove that the boat picked up speed? That would only work where there isn't a lot of wind. And as 58984 ew said here for this purpose we are assuming that it is legal or that you arnt picking up any speed.

 

[Wavedancer]

It would be very hard to get the boat going faster right after the tack then right before it. That would also be very hard to measure.

Agreed that it is hard, if not impossible to determine whether a boat's speed after the tack is greater than it would have been in the absence of the (roll) tack. Yes, there will be a brief period of greater speed (due to the "squirt" described by 58984 EW, but I was wondering in my initial post whether a slow roll tack which results in a higher initial speed on the new tack was better (faster overall) than a conventional tack. And the reason that I wanted to stay away from a Rule 42 discussion was that this topic is controversial at all levels (club racing to Olympic). I do agree with John Fonseca that when one thinks that a competitor has broken a rule, a protest is in order (postpone the beer ). But for perceived Rule 42 violations, it might be better to first give an oral warning (see Tillerman's blog, cited below). Getting honest witnesses (see Old Geezer's post) is difficult; we all concentrate on our own sailing and are seldom in a spot to accurately judge a perceived Rule 42 infraction. I think (!) that at high-level events, two judges on the water have to agree before throwing a (Rule 42) violation flag.

Coincidentally, Rule 42 (more specifically, roll tacking) was the topic of the May 5 musings of a blog written by Tillerman (http://propercourse.blogspot.com/). Tillerman sails a Sunfish and a Laser and his stories are often hilarious and/or educational; highly recommended for websailors. His description of a perceived Rule 42 violation at his club mimics a debate that I witnessed in my own club about a year ago (where most folks sail a Laser).

Finally, I dug into the posted picture a bit more. It turns out 3503 was sailed by Lucas Gonzalez-Smith, the current Sunfish World Champion.

 

[LAuman]

I'm kind of interested in where this goes. IMHO it's wasteful to NOT roll tack. It's hard to imagine that repeated roll tacks would be faster than holding your course in any but zero air (if then). . . that would be an interesting drill. Repeated pumping, of course is a different, and clearly illegal, situation.

 

[sailorf2]

I did try that a while ago. It didnt seem to make a difference. It may have helped but i think it hurt me. Now keep in mind when i tryed this I wasnt experenced in roll tacks. I dont know what would happen if you got someone who was really good at roll tacking.