Restoring a laser2, hull deck seperation

A

AlexL

New Member
Hi,
I just bought a laser 2 that needs restoration, the wood inside is rothed out and the hull deck joint needs to be redone as well as the mass step. I plan on doing this the right way by seperating the hull from the deck. I was wondering if there is a proper way to cut the deck off the hull and if there is a proper and recomended way to reinforce a laser 2 structure.

thanks,Alex
 
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This is a picture of the hull deck joint as you can see there are plants growing in the joint, this seems abnormal arent plants suposed to be dried before they end up a a joint.
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Next step was to take every litle parts or bolts, flipping the boat over. I used a chisel with a very small hammer to take the exces epoxy from previous repairs and to break the epoxy loose.
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I noticed that it was easier to break loose epoxy were there were no clamps that installed in previous repairs. Note, the Epoxy and fibeglass should be around 7mm thick when clamped together, not 15mm since the epoxy in large quantities insnt solid.

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I only used a the chisel with the a hamer to seperate this.




Then I used a cut off wheel to cut this, fiberglass burns with the cut off wheel and there is a liquid that leaked from the cutting area, not sure if its epoxy that changed phases. the disc also broke pieces since its not made for fiberglass

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A problem occured I think there is a second fiberglass shell holding styrofome inside, if anyone has advice on how to deal with id vould be quite happy
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This is the fiberglass part Il have to cut(at the the end of the screwdriver).

Advice someone?
 
My bet would be that there is a matching 'D' type bulge of glass on the other side for stabilizing the trunk.

The 'D' was then filled with Foam.
 
Im wondering what would be the proper way to cut the mass step from the deck since I plan to seperate it in two parts. Does anyone know how to do that?
 
I just found these images on the internet:

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I think the styrofoam is put inside the deck, and then fiberglass is laid over.
Check yellow arrow there would be styrofoam in that section. Im wondering if there is more styrofoam somewere else in the boat.
 
I happen to be in somewhat of the same process as you are. I can't help with the separation bit as I'm dealing with a boat that was separated, poorly repaired, and resealed. I would e-mail the person who runs the laser 2 North American class to see if they know.

Once you get the hulls separated, make sure you use water-safe wood. If you're not good with fiberglass, have someone help you. Don't forget, when you replace the wood, to DRILL SCUPPER HOLES! I found some 5-8 year-old resin-water that had been sealed in the front of the boat. Not pretty. Also, make sure you reinforce the wood that the mainsheet block and other load-bearing fittings are screwed into.
 
Im in the same kind of situation with a laser 1 (1978) that had a almost full separation. I separated the deck/hull by running a knife along the seam. The old epoxy was fairly easy to knock loose but there is still a lot left. I had hoped that the deck would just come off and I could clean it the rest of the old epoxy off from the inside. However I did not anticipate that the hull/deck was joined together at the mast, dagger board, and cockpit. So now I need to do the best to glue the deck/hull back together and could use some advise from the collective wisdom here on the laser forum. My questions:
1. Do I need to remove all the old epoxy between the hull/deck seal or is it better to leave some on as "filler" . The more I remove the more glue I will need to fill it in. Im finding that a pressure washer works well to remove the old semi roted epoxy. I do have a dremil tool that I could use to remove all the old epoxy, but I don't want to make more work and dust if not needed.
2. I see many mention of using the West system epoxy to glue the hull/deck back together, but I also see that 3M 5200 is also used for the hull/deck seal in many sailboats. Is there any advantage to one glue over the another?

Thanks for the wisdom. This is a great site.

Peace, Reed
 
The origional stuff that connects the hull and deck isn't epoxy... its plexis. The advantage of plexis over epoxy is that as plexis cures, in theory, it doesnt expand like epoxy does while still providing a good seal. However, it is REALLY expensive and really messy. If you're going to be just sailing her for fun, you'll want to name your first born child West System Epoxy.

I would definately remove the old stuff. If it's left in there, it will be a weak point in the new structure and eventually it will give way.

As far as the rotted wood is concerned.... thats a problem. The biggest issue with rotted wood is that it spreads like wildfire. You're best bet is to get all the wood out of there and then fill it with some light, but high density, filler.

Now... for the weekend chemesty lecture on the difference between 5200 and epoxy.... 52gajillion (as we call it where I work) is merely an adhesive. All it does is bond two surfaces together, much like a version of CVS brand glue on steroids. It does a good job as a sealent, but I wouldnt want to use it to do the entire hull to deck joint. Epoxy on the other hand is a chemical reaction that "cooks" together. Once hardened, epoxy is very hard to seperate. The issue with epoxy is that it does not chemically bond to polyesther fiberglass, which is what Vanguard uses to make their hulls. I can't attest to what Pearson or the Canadian builders used, but I would assume it is along the same lines. Forthe bonding of the two, I would use epoxy over 5200 any day. Again, plexis is the best option because it does bond chemically with the polyesther fiberglass, but it's messy and expensive. I've done a ton of big repair jobs with West System and I havn't been dissappointed yet.

I hope this helps.....
 
Thanks for the advice. West is what I will use. I also notice that the underside of my deck has de-laminated and there is what looks like a piece of 1/4 inch foam between the upper deck and the sub-laminate. I am considering completely separating the deck.
AlexL, I hope that since we are in a simmilar situation that we can both learn what to do. I have not figured out the best way to completely separate the deck. The auto-bailer seems to be holding in the cockpit section and the dagger board socket also couples the deck to the hull along with the mast step. Okay, Im new to this so please if there is a proper way to separate these sections that would allow minimal work to re-join, please advise. The mast step and dagger board socket are both in good shape. I just want to separate the deck in order to re-laminate the deck where it is split. I will take some pictures and will post on another thread. At this point, I don't think I'm getting in over my head, but then these kind of projects seem to always peal off more complexity. Please share any wisdom that you can. Thanks for all the support as I dive into the new project.
-Reed
 
custom bailer?

the picture in post #12 by Alex L shows a tube in the hull - is that an after market bailer?

are such custom bailers permitted in Laser class? cause the stock bailer doesn't seem to work

M/
 
I know its been over 3 years, but did any of you guys find a solution? Im in the same situation. Any updates would be great!
 
its funny that you should mention this 3 years later.. Heres what WILL work... you open the gap, grind out debris with high speed disk to get to bare F Glass. blow it out with air hose if you have one, if not use a brush to remove shavings. Mix up some 2 part epoxy, pour it in, let the gap close. if it will not close naturally, use some clamps. for bigger gaps, you may need to soak some FGlass matting and push that into the gaps to fill in space. do this all the way around the hull deck joint and leave it overnight to dry. I also cut two 6 inch inspeaction ports into the deck, aft of the cockpit and forward by the mast so I can see in there, make sure the floatation bags are good, and fix any other crackin from the inside like around the daggerboard joints and mast step.

Having said that, I got about 1/2 way finished, then raised the boat into the rafters of my garage and there is has lived all this time! see if its out of the way, you dont think about it, therefore it never gets finished. I was HOPING to finish it THIS YEAR!!! Im also going to repaint and replace some jam cleats that dont really work. I mean, they work from 0-5k but NOT when you NEED them most you know! lol.
 

Wow, thank you for your reply! But if you dont mind, Im still stuck on removing the deck. The deck on mine really doesnt want to come off. I went around with a screw driver and a hammer and pried the overlap free. Still it doesnt want to come up. Also, the decking is attached in the maststep and the centerboard trunk, correct? Basically, Im still struggling with step 1, getting the deck off, so if you wouldnt mind going into a little bit more detail about how you accomplished this I would really appreciate it. Thanks
 
Deck off? I never said to pull the deck off.... mine was not that bad see, so I only had to open it where the hull deck joint was already opening, and leaking. Ive never heard of anyone pulling the whole deck off, cause, ya, the mast step is also attached and the dagger board trunk. So just try opening the joint. you can hold it open with screw drivers, grind out the loose debris with the high speed grinding wheel and fill it back in with epoxy. A good rule of thumb in life is "don't create unnecessary work".

anyway you give me some motivation to lower mine from the rafters and get to work on it before the season is over but that means my car has to live outside... and if my car lives outside, that means people passing by know Im home and usually come in a bug me - people selling stuff, talkative neighbors and the paperboy and his posse usually shake me down for cash! lol.
 
This post really helped me get started on my own project described over on Google+. Photos and info are there (https://plus.google.com/u/0/111663680941850932822/posts/19mDwGm2Wdk) but here's the gist of it all:

So last weekend I took the Laser 2 out for the 2nd time and while trying to raise the mainsail in ~15mph winds it got off the pulley at the top of the mast and the wire became wedged in place. With it 3/4 of the way up I made the judgement call of windsurfing it back to the dock (while alternately steering w/ my foot or one-hand) before deciding to just swamp the boat to get to the mast and remove the upper portion.

I wasn't in a particular hurry but probably should have been as the boat quickly became so swamped that it could not be bailed out. A combination of the adhesive/sealant along the gunwales being 30 years old and nearly useless, plus at least one missing cubitainer float (I'm going to add almost twice the suggested number and several along the sides), and lastly 1/2 the daggerboard gasket being missing all led to me staring at a shipwreck for a few hours.

Thanks in part to the Boy Scouts and my high-school physics teacher I got it out of the water. I rigged up a series of pseudo pulleys and knots w/ spare ropes and carabiners left over from my rigging to hoist the boat far enough out of the water to get it to drain just enough that it was no longer attempting to hunt for the Red October and I could then lever it up onto the dock by hand to drain fully.

Yesterday I stopped by West Marine's (http://www.westmarine.com) store in Indianapolis to pick up epoxy, hardner, filling and miscellaneous whatnot to fix the deck/hull seal. Today I started clearing out the old gunk so I could start fresh. Photos of the cleanup are below which took me just over an hour.

My boat already had 4 access ports cut into the hull. I added the covers/mounts and sealed them prior to my undersea adventure. All of thisdid a great job doing absolutely nothing when I swamped it since the gunwales were wide open. :)

Elsewhere online I'd read to use a dremel to clear out the old gunk from between the deck/hull. Due to the nature of the deterioration for my hull using a pair of dull/sharp chisels and a hammer to lever up the pieces and break up the remaining adhesive worked much better. The sharp chisel which I use for woodworking cut through the old adhesive almost too well and occasionally cut into the fiberglass. I finally primarily used the dull chisel & hammer (and only occasionally the sharp chisel) to clear off most of the adhesive and followed up w/ some 60-grit sandpaper on my orbital sander on a few sections.

I removed all hardware around the edges (front u-bolt and side wire mounts), flipped it upside down, and worked my way around the hull a few feet at a time working w/ the chisels and hammer a few feet apart to get enough clearance for chiseling and then the sander. I only sanded down the hull (not the deck), but I did work the chisels down into the deck material to break the old adhesive free from the foam backing that appears to be along the underside of the deck. Just driving the chisel vertically down into the material appeared to break it free and not harm too much of the foam.

I can only assume that all of the old plywood inside came from various locations throughout the boat. W/o good documentation on the exact construction of the 1982 models of the Laser 2 it is hard to be certain what was where. Although from reaching around inside it appears that at least some of it appeared to form a compartment between the front/rear of the craft (long since deteriorated).

I did get a little too impatient with one section that still had the adhesive tightly holding everything in place. My chisel work wound up flexing/tearing the deck fiberglass on one small section. I could hear a sound similar to velco pulling apart but was uncertain if it was the foam backing or something else making it. I now know it was the fiberglass layers of the deck pulling apart. The second time I started to hear that sound I immediately stopped, worked my chisels w/ the hammer directly down between the two layers one inch at a time and then back again going deeper each pass and then I was able to safely pull the deck/hull apart.

I'm considering borrowing another set of hands for help with the Epoxy work for speed's sake. I'd like to put wedges in place all along the hull/deck joint first then work quickly to get all the adhesive in place before pulling the wedges and putting clamps on to hold it together tightly. I'll update when I get to the next phase and the proper repair. For now, here's the demo photos
 
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