Radial or 4,7

E

enescaylak

New Member
Help me to choose correct rig please

I'm sailing in Turkey.I weight 72 kgs and I'm 15 years old.I'm sailing on a pirat because our club doesn't have any laser.I think laser is more fun and more excitement because pirat is very very boring :mad: :mad: .I decided to buy my own laser (thanks to dad) but I can't decide which rig is the correct one.I sail well (on pirat but if we look the others as young as me.So I want to race but I think I will be heavy for 4,7 but it will be hard for me to start laser with radial.What do you think????
 
enescaylak said:
Help me to choose correct rig please

I'm sailing in Turkey.I weight 72 kgs and I'm 15 years old.I'm sailing on a pirat because our club doesn't have any laser.I think laser is more fun and more excitement because pirat is very very boring :mad: :mad: .I decided to buy my own laser (thanks to dad) but I can't decide which rig is the correct one.I sail well (on pirat but if we look the others as young as me.So I want to race but I think I will be heavy for 4,7 but it will be hard for me to start laser with radial.What do you think????
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I think that you are too heavy for the 4.7 unless you routinely sail in a lot of breeze.
 
Well, first of all: why is the pirat so boring? If you have competitors to sail against, it should be fun. Sure, lasers are fun, but so are Hobies and so are Ocean racers. If you are bored in the pirat, I wonder if you will not be bored in any sailboat??? I am also not sure how much fun it will be if you do not have any one else to race against, or train with.
If you go for the laser, a radial would work. You should look at the weigth standards for each class, but I think 73 kgs in 3 - 6 beaufort should be good.

G
 
thanks for your commet.I'm still racing in pirat class.I have strong competitors but I want to do more things.You know firstly pirat is not an olympic class and you just have a couple of international races but I want to work hard and maybe join the national team thats my aim.Secondly if you llok at pirat'S performace at sea it's slower.
 
hi

i am about the same as u in age i got a new laser and got the 4.7 and radial then that way u have got the 4.7 if the radial is much in the wind but u will still use the radial in light winds. that is the best thing i think .:)

187490:)
 
I don't know the "Pirat" class, but one reason I got a Laser was so I could compete against other Lasers. There are more Lasers around me than other classes (except Oppies and I'm 50 so I think I'll give them a miss for the moment).


To me the fun is competing against other boats who "all things being equal" you should be equal with. i.e. if you are ahead you are winning and if behind you are losing. I personally prefer this to handicap racing. I also think one tends to learn more when competing against other boats of the same class (compare performance over a shorter distance and compare settings, etc.


If you are going to be the only Laser then it might be you will progress slower than sticking with "Pirats". If you do well of badly you will never know if it was you doing well or badly or the weather/course in relation to the handicaps. I tend to find sailing around for fun is great for a short time but after a bit one sort of wants other Lasers (same class of boat) to have duels against.


Ian
 
Oh, I'm 68Kg and have a Standard rig so at 72Kg I would guess that a 4.7 might be a bit small. How tall are you ?


Ian
 
72kg, that would be on the heavy side even for a radial. I weigh about the same and I recently made the transition from radial to standard. Seems to me like the question you should be asking isn't 4.7 or radial but radial or standard. Optimal weight for a radial is 150 pounds (68kg). Not sure what exactly a bofor is but if you're in light wind I'd say go for the standard rig.
 
HikedLikeCrazy said:
72kg, that would be on the heavy side even for a radial. I weigh about the same and I recently made the transition from radial to standard. Seems to me like the question you should be asking isn't 4.7 or radial but radial or standard. Optimal weight for a radial is 150 pounds (68kg).
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I'd agree with that.

Consider how heavy the men in your family became as they grew older. You're 15 now, you are still growing. If your clan is a heavy set type a standard rig may be the better option. 72kg sounds reasonably heavy for a 15year old.

Not sure what exactly a bofor is but if you're in light wind I'd say go for the standard rig.
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It's the Beaufort Scale. Force 3-5 would be between 7-10 and 17-21 knots. Force 4-6 is 11-16 to 22-27 knots.

My opinion is consider the standard rig for that wind range. Maybe find someone who will let you try out their boat. The lighter stuff will have you sailing fast, and you can just dump air if you get overpowered in the heavy stuff. On a reach in 27knots things will certainly be exciting for you. Worse case you can reef for the heavy winds too.
 
I'm sure this discussion has done the rounds before, but 72kg is pretty close to the perfect Radial weight, unless you nearly always sail in light breezes. Sounds like you often have 10 knots plus, i.e. hiking breeze - you will struggle in the full rig in those conditions, and would be way underpowered in a 4.7. Look at the past few Radial Mens World champions - all 70kg plus, and some getting towards 80kg. So, steer clear of the 4.7 and only move to the full rig if and when you reach 78-80kg.
 
Hi enescaylak,
I have sailed the Pirat very competitive during the 70ties and the beginning of the 80ties. Yes, the Pirat has strong competitors. At the club where I'm member (Sailing Club Hansa Muenster, SHM, Germany) in the past we had two European Champions Crew's in that sailing class (unfortunately I havn't been at one of those two crews, but I know them) ...

You made a good decision to look over the border to another most competitive sailing class, in deed.
At the Laser you definitely will learn a lot new things, that you later may use for getting one of next "EC"'s at the Pirat. :)
If you are able to transfer your experience, that you surely get by sailing the Laser at races at Turkey in future, perhaps you get one of the best Pirat-helmsmen in a couple of years.
Not knowing, if you have the chance to reach the "Istanbulyelken Kubulu" (Istanbul Yacht CLub), I independent from that would advise you to contact the Fleet Captain of the Laser Fleet of that Yacht Club. All I know, it is our loved DrLaser (Dr. Shevy Gunter). Say, you got the advice from the Laserforum.org and I'm sure you get the best Laser coach you would get at Turkey.

To your question: the Laser Formula says: "Radial", you sail if you are at a weight between 55-70 kg. It perhaps is not bad to use a 4.7-Rig in winds over 5 Bft. if you are a beginner in the Laser. Aft a time of getting experience more and more, switch to Radial and with a little more time, you switch to the Standard rig.
From Turkey I know (from Shevy), that Radial is very common at Laser races and so, from this side of view you better first take the Radial. So, if you begin with the Laser, you perhaps in heavy winds you rent a 4.7 rig for a couple of times, if you can. If it isn't possible to borrow a 4.7 rig, then take the Radial, your weight is "okay" for the Radial rig.

To your second question: Take a used "Laser Race GXD", perhaps not older than 4 years (depends on the fact, how much that Laser is used in heavy winds, etc.). It's cheaper at all for a beginner at Laser races. Later, if you have succes at races, you sell the old Laser and buy a new one, which is faster.
You definitely need the XD-Vang and Cunningham-/Outhaulsystem which the "Laser Race"-production-series already has.
If you really have the luck to contact drLaser at Istanbul (at least at the Istanbul Sailing Week at August 2007, f.e.), he 150% foreshore gives you the secrets to make a most raceable Laser out of your raceble Laser :) And for that the most members of TLF do envy you :)

Have a good start in sailing the Laser, if you have success in contacting Dr. Gunter, please send the very-very best greetings to him (we all miss him here very much at TLF) and: don't give up sailing the Pirat (It's a really good boat and I often remember the good times I had there as a teenager (good aft-sailing parties :)

Ciao
LooserLu
 
Lots of thanks for your posts.Also special thanks for your suggestion LooserLu.I think I'll be in Istanbul sailing club in Is tanbul sailing week I'll ask to him(if I can).
I've been searching for used lasers on the net but I can't find any.The lasers I found are just dead.So I'm thinking of buying a new one.And also as I looked the foreign laser dealers they sell lasers cheaper than Turkey dealer.I looked at the vanguard lasers prices and it was 5900$ but in turkey the lasers are 7500€ so I' thinking buying a laser from america and take it from there by cargo.Do you think it is OK ??? And also could you inform me about vanguard boats?Vanguard is the dealer isn't it??


Enes
 
enescaylak said:
Lots of thanks for your posts.Also special thanks for your suggestion LooserLu.I think I'll be in Istanbul sailing club in Is tanbul sailing week I'll ask to him(if I can).
I've been searching for used lasers on the net but I can't find any.The lasers I found are just dead.So I'm thinking of buying a new one.And also as I looked the foreign laser dealers they sell lasers cheaper than Turkey dealer.I looked at the vanguard lasers prices and it was 5900$ but in turkey the lasers are 7500€ so I' thinking buying a laser from america and take it from there by cargo.Do you think it is OK ??? And also could you inform me about vanguard boats?Vanguard is the dealer isn't it??
Enes
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Again, Enes,
trie to contact Dr.Gunter at the Istanbul YC first before you order a new Laser. Shevy (Dr Laser) knows ways at Turkey to help you. I can't imagine that he not is able to find a raceble Laser Radial for you for a reasonable price. I'm sure also in the point of view, that there surely is a way to carry such a used Laser in good condition to the village you live at. I send you a Private Message for more information.
Ciao
LooserLu
 
The european lasers are probably worth the extra money, vanguard isn't known for quality. But your best bet would be to look for a boat thats been charters a few times. You can get them for significantly (500-1000) less than a new one.
 
evet öle de sizin klupte 4.7 yelken yokki zaten bildiiim kadrıyla hem bosver 4.7 yi olsada salla yap pasa pasa radial ;)
 
Berrrak ı think we should talk in english because this forum is an international forum.
And if you read my post carefully you would see that I wrote I2m going to buy my own laser.;) ;)
 
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