Racing Etiquette

#21
I must say I am a bit puzzled by some of the replies.
I am never annoyed by people trying to cover me. It is surely part of the skill of racing to be able to deal with a covering boat by counter tactics. There will be plenty of opportunities to shake them during the course of a race.
It is a lot harder, if not impossible, to pass a covering boat on the last beat, but by then you are beaten anyway.
I admit, I could have passed him downwind but it was pretty light wind, and i'm not as good as him when it comes to downwind/light wind sailing :(. It's not like it was for one tack of the race. It was the whole time! Don't you think its a little rude to follow someone the whole race? I mean i was trying everything to shake him off. I even tried to tack and then tack right back thinking he would let me go, but it didn't work. If everyone did this sailing would be only about the starts and downwind legs.
 
#22
I feel your suffering SailNJ but if this guy is close covering you he cannot be much better than you can he. It sound like you sail against him often so use him as a training opportunity to develop ways to pass him.
Cover him with your sail on a run and time your move for the inside mark rounding.
Sail him into a bunch of starboard tack boats to clear him away from you.
Improve your starting techniques to gain a windward position etc etc..
Thank him for giving you so much practice.
 
#23
I must say I am a bit puzzled by some of the replies.
I am never annoyed by people trying to cover me. It is surely part of the skill of racing to be able to deal with a covering boat by counter tactics. There will be plenty of opportunities to shake them during the course of a race.
It is a lot harder, if not impossible, to pass a covering boat on the last beat, but by then you are beaten anyway.
I agree.

Ian
 
#24
I feel your suffering SailNJ but if this guy is close covering you he cannot be much better than you can he. It sound like you sail against him often so use him as a training opportunity to develop ways to pass him.
Cover him with your sail on a run and time your move for the inside mark rounding.
Sail him into a bunch of starboard tack boats to clear him away from you.
Improve your starting techniques to gain a windward position etc etc..
Thank him for giving you so much practice.
Haha yea me and him are neck and neck almost every time. Thanks for the tips and luckily it happened only that day, but if he does it again I'll make sure to mess up his plans. I remember last year when I considered myself as 2nd to him every race but now I'm beating him frequently and he's trying whatever he can to stay ahead of me.
 
#25
There are many aspects to covering somebody and so much depends on the situation of each of the boats (both within the series and on the race course). For example, maybe you are the last race of a series and to win you need only beat one particular boat - in which case you will be covering him all the time, sailing both yourself and him/her wherever because it does not matter if you are last but one and he is last because that is all you need to do to win. Or maybe it is your discard but if other boat comes in the top e.g. 10 they win but 11th or lower and you win, etc. Under such circumstances covering is the only way to go (IMHO). You do it to somebody else and were the situation the other way round they would be doing it to you. Similarly, you are ahead but with a narrow lead on the guy/gal behind - so baring just daft decisions by them you cover to make sure you get the same wind/holes in the wind, same tide, etc. - you want to stay ahead and 2 yds is as goos and 300 yds (so why risk everything to extend to 300 yds but maybe lose if you end up with less wind). etc., etc. Why duck somebodies stern and lose a lot to windward when the wind has just shifted anyway so you tack, get the good wind and they either stay in foul air or tack off to the worse wind direction and you have taken a place, etc.

What do America's Cup boats do - get angry because one is covering the other on the 1st beat !!

It is racing and a large part of racing is tactics and a lot of that is dealing with other boats. I ended up getting covered on the last beat this evening. I broke it but too late - I feel no irritation whatsoever because had our positions been the other way round I would have done the same.

Ian
 
#26
There are many aspects to covering somebody and so much depends on the situation of each of the boats (both within the series and on the race course). For example, maybe you are the last race of a series and to win you need only beat one particular boat - in which case you will be covering him all the time, sailing both yourself and him/her wherever because it does not matter if you are last but one and he is last because that is all you need to do to win. Or maybe it is your discard but if other boat comes in the top e.g. 10 they win but 11th or lower and you win, etc. Under such circumstances covering is the only way to go (IMHO). You do it to somebody else and were the situation the other way round they would be doing it to you. Similarly, you are ahead but with a narrow lead on the guy/gal behind - so baring just daft decisions by them you cover to make sure you get the same wind/holes in the wind, same tide, etc. - you want to stay ahead and 2 yds is as goos and 300 yds (so why risk everything to extend to 300 yds but maybe lose if you end up with less wind). etc., etc. Why duck somebodies stern and lose a lot to windward when the wind has just shifted anyway so you tack, get the good wind and they either stay in foul air or tack off to the worse wind direction and you have taken a place, etc.

What do America's Cup boats do - get angry because one is covering the other on the 1st beat !!

It is racing and a large part of racing is tactics and a lot of that is dealing with other boats. I ended up getting covered on the last beat this evening. I broke it but too late - I feel no irritation whatsoever because had our positions been the other way round I would have done the same.

Ian
So the people covered you one beat of the race. He covered me every beat of every race in the regatta and even went out of his way to cover me. I don't feel like arguing over this so I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. If not, I understand where your coming from and I too cover other boats if I need to. I guess we can just agree to disagree. :)
 
#27
So the people covered you one beat of the race. He covered me every beat of every race in the regatta and even went out of his way to cover me. I don't feel like arguing over this so I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. If not, I understand where your coming from and I too cover other boats if I need to. I guess we can just agree to disagree. :)
My comment was a general one about the discussion - not related to your own experience (so no aspect to agree/disagree or argue about it). Your posting your experience does not mean every subsequent post is about you.

Ian
 
#28
My comment was a general one about the discussion - not related to your own experience (so no aspect to agree/disagree or argue about it). Your posting your experience does not mean every subsequent post is about you.

Ian
Sorry about that I was thought it from someone else but I was mistaken.
 

Rob B

Active Member
#29
So the people covered you one beat of the race. He covered me every beat of every race in the regatta and even went out of his way to cover me. I don't feel like arguing over this so I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. If not, I understand where your coming from and I too cover other boats if I need to. I guess we can just agree to disagree. :)
This is true. I was once at a regatta and the way the points laid out I only had to worry about 1 boat in the final race that could catch me. So, I sat on him at the start and drove him back further in the fleet through the event putting about 5 boats between us, but ALWAYS covering him no matter what direction he took, (I've actually done this twice now that I think about it). By the end of the race he was FURIOUS as he had no idea WHY I was covering him. When we taked about it he understood. It was still a very frustrating race for him, but a necessary strategy for me.
 
#31
Normally I would use the fact that they are covering me to my advantage. If they are looking at me then they are not looking around.
If there is someone else around then tack them into them.
Look ahead of them and tack them when a gust or bad set of wave is about to hit them. Works well this one! Do this 2/3 times and you catch up on them.
If you are close, try to get out of sync with their tacking. You get a header when you are being covered on the same tack but you get a lift if you are on opposite tacks.

Remember if anyone has close cover on you it means that you control what they do and they are not looking where they are going!
 
#33
I consistently find that if I am consciously trying to "race" one person close by, that I am slower than when I am just racing myself and concentrating on what I am doing.
I find that I am faster when I have boats nearby (better if they are in front. I tend to pay little attention to boats behind (an occasional glance) but much more attention to those in front (as it is those who I want to pass).

Just sailing along alone I find far slower than with nearby boats I am trying to pass.

Not just a Laser thing, but when I was racing bigger boats (offshore) we were always better of with nearby boats.

Of course, not if they are pinching or messing up your wind.

Ian
 
#34
BTW, I was a bit unnerved at first by being yelled at (with swearing)

Actually, this is a fairly common tactic BUT is likely a violation of Rule 2 (Fair Sailing). Appeals Case 47 specifically addresses this. In that case, a fairly extreme example, an experienced sailor unfairly influenced a less experienced Junior with erroneous verbal comments, and was "tossed" even without a flag/formal protest, etc.

So, yelling and "swearing" at a (less experienced?) female who clearly did not foul the screamer, which then likely resulted in her future actions being modified..... very close to a Rule 2 violation IMHO.

"Swearing at" you about "etiquette"? Huh?

I'm surprised he didn't also say "Don't you know WHO I AM" ala BC.

Yes, I agree that "What goes around, comes around" but on a shifty lake it's pretty common for most boats to want to sail on the lifts and thus tack simultaneously. Even in Thistles, I'd guess.

Al
 

Rob B

Active Member
#35
BTW, I was a bit unnerved at first by being yelled at (with swearing)

Actually, this is a fairly common tactic BUT is likely a violation of Rule 2 (Fair Sailing). Appeals Case 47 specifically addresses this. In that case, a fairly extreme example, an experienced sailor unfairly influenced a less experienced Junior with erroneous verbal comments, and was "tossed" even without a flag/formal protest, etc.

Al
That incident also included a boarding and physical assault. It's gonna have to be quite the case of verbal abuse to violate rule 2.
 

Merrily

Administrator
Thread starter #36
He didn't swear at me, which to me would be "Damn you, Merrily."* It was "damn it, Merrily."* And he didn't swear in the ensuing discussion.

It ended up that he had to drop out of the race due to a tiller problem. I think that it would be bad form to protest him then. :rolleyes:

It's possible some of his frustrations come from the fact that he was my first sailing instructor, and now I'm beating him. BTW, he's using one of those replica sails.

*Name changed for humor effect.
 
#38
To tell the truth....I have been known to "swear at" myself (and my boat, my tiller/stick, my mainsheet wrapped around my legs......and even at a few Gods known only to Roman's, Greeks, and maybe Inca's).
 

Rob B

Active Member
#39
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