Problems developing Power

C

captadamr

New Member
Hello,

I have been sailing aggressively for around 4 months with club boats. Finally got my own, 180000 series. I was out with the same main in 8-10kts and was keeping up and ahead of most of the sunfish I was sailing with (one is a2x world champ). I was out today with the same crew in 14-18kt and was having trouble keeping up. It seemed that I couldn't make nearly as much power in todays conditions vs the lighter winds. I had the vang tighter than 2block but not over tight, and cunni pulling the wrinkles out of luff. Outhaul had about 10in of draft. I was able to hold the boat flat most of the time except in the gusts. I just was getting gassed by the sunfish. I understand they cant point as high as the laser, but they were beating me to the top mark. The sail is older but isnt blown out. It was quite choppy 3ft and 5sec. Is it the sail or my technique? I weigh 200lb

thanks
 
captadamr said:
Hello,

I have been sailing aggressively for around 4 months with club boats. Finally got my own, 180000 series. I was out with the same main in 8-10kts and was keeping up and ahead of most of the sunfish I was sailing with (one is a2x world champ). I was out today with the same crew in 14-18kt and was having trouble keeping up. It seemed that I couldn't make nearly as much power in todays conditions vs the lighter winds. I had the vang tighter than 2block but not over tight, and cunni pulling the wrinkles out of luff. Outhaul had about 10in of draft. I was able to hold the boat flat most of the time except in the gusts. I just was getting gassed by the sunfish. I understand they cant point as high as the laser, but they were beating me to the top mark. The sail is older but isnt blown out. It was quite choppy 3ft and 5sec. Is it the sail or my technique? I weigh 200lb

thanks
Click to expand...

The problem wasn't your weight, because those conditions(14-18) are ideal for 200lbs and you should have been walking away, upwind and down. usually, you need to be powered up in waves(10" of draft may have been a little too much, maybe 8"?). also, maybe easing the main to 8-10 inches between main sheet blocks, don't point but foot and keep your bow down. i'm confused on your vang statement - 2 block. i've only referred to block-to-block on the main sheet blocks (one on the traveler, one on boom end). i can't see why a 200 lb'er needs to crank on alot of vang, just enough. this is just my opinion, i'm sure others will add theirs. keep it up.
 
Sounds like you might have been pinching. You really need to push the bow down and when you do, you'll feel the power and have to start hiking, really hard.

In that wind speed, at 200 lbs and that much chop, I would just have enough vang to take the slack out when two blocked, too much vang is going to bend the mast so much that you will be taking power out of the sail. If I'm getting overpowered, I'd crank on more cunningham before vang in chop
 
I find it hard to estimate wind speed when I go sailing. If the weather service sez that it will blow 10 to 15 then I think that the gusts will be near 25 here on my lake.

I have experienced gusts that when hiked out to my tippy toes I cannot haul in the main sheet and the wind is still too strong to point as high as I think the boat can go and end up getting denied going upwind to the mark.

Does anyone out there know how much wind it takes to actually push a 200lb sailor over while fully hiked out and close-hauled? I think that you should be able to tell the local wind speed with a spread sheet using the sailor weight as a variable.
 
In-hind sight perhaps I can relate this to kiteboarding, in that when you try to over-power the kite it actually generates less power and drive. I did have the cunningham quite loose, and the outhaul foot was too big.

Can the sail become overpowered and stall??
 
stick said:
The problem wasn't your weight, because those conditions(14-18) are ideal for 200lbs and you should have been walking away, upwind and down. usually, you need to be powered up in waves(10" of draft may have been a little too much, maybe 8"?). also, maybe easing the main to 8-10 inches between main sheet blocks, don't point but foot and keep your bow down. i'm confused on your vang statement - 2 block. i've only referred to block-to-block on the main sheet blocks (one on the traveler, one on boom end). i can't see why a 200 lb'er needs to crank on alot of vang, just enough. this is just my opinion, i'm sure others will add theirs. keep it up.
Click to expand...

I was referring to two blocking the sail and pulling the slack out of the vang and a little more. I guess I was used to the conditions we have had for most of the year under 12kt and concentrating on pointing vs having to worry about keeping the boat moving.
 
Were you pinching in attempt to point with everyone else? When you are overpowered it is tempting to pinch so as to sail high and depower a bit to keep the boat flat. This is NOT the fast way to sail a laser though, as you're stalled the whole time and side-slipping (making leeway). It sounds like your controls were set up more or less correctly. Try footing off and sailing by the tell tales, and playing the main to keep your boat flat. Counter-intuitive perhaps, but a common fix for beginner upwind laser sailing woes. And as always, don't forget to hike your butt off.

-Matt

P.S. I just noticed that 49028 basically already said the same thing.
 
wessel said:
I find it hard to estimate wind speed when I go sailing. If the weather service sez that it will blow 10 to 15 then I think that the gusts will be near 25 here on my lake.

I have experienced gusts that when hiked out to my tippy toes I cannot haul in the main sheet and the wind is still too strong to point as high as I think the boat can go and end up getting denied going upwind to the mark.

Does anyone out there know how much wind it takes to actually push a 200lb sailor over while fully hiked out and close-hauled? I think that you should be able to tell the local wind speed with a spread sheet using the sailor weight as a variable.
Click to expand...

Too many variables to try and use sailor weight.. (sail settings, how tall and hard someone hikes for example)

IMHO, if you are having trouble estimating wind speed, pick up one of the hand held guages - the simple "floating ball" is pretty accurate when used correctly.. [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Meter-Wind-Dwyer-Instruments-METER/dp/B0019H84JW"]Amazon.com: Meter,Wind Dwyer Instruments WIND METER: Automotive[/ame]
 
captadamr said:
In-hind sight perhaps I can relate this to kiteboarding, in that when you try to over-power the kite it actually generates less power and drive. I did have the cunningham quite loose, and the outhaul foot was too big.

Can the sail become overpowered and stall??
Click to expand...

It can - but in 18 kts, even at 200 lbs, if you push the bow down enough to stall, you'll most likely be on your way to capsizing..

Do you have telltales set up on the luff of the sail (anywhere from 12" to 24" back from the front of the mast sleeve..) ? If not, suggest you set up some.
 
Yo Adam.

A couple things to remember:

You can have your outhaul off too far. At the deepest point, the foot of your sail should never be more than a hand's width away from the boom. From the tip of your finger, to the bottom of your hand, where your wrist starts. Obviously, hand sizes differ, but this is a general way. Over time, you'll get used to it and just "know" when it's too deep. Pictures would be a great help here, but oh well.

At your height and weight, you shouldn't have any problems with keeping the boat flat.

If you are over powered, put enough vang out so that when you sheet out, your boom moves out, horizontally, not up. Sheet accordingly, but remember: flat boat, all the time. If you can't keep it flat, depower your sail more. I personally start with the vang and cunningham, leaving the outhaul for last, really overpowered situations.

Don't worry so much about wind speed, worry more about how it feels. Twenty knots, flat water is a lot different than twenty knots, big waves.

Hope this helps. If you have any questions, ask away.
 
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