Price of Laser sails (original thread)

O

OliLaser

Guest
Hi
I am a student. I was recently looking for a new sail for my Laser I was shocked to learn that a north, which are the not as good as hydes were $850 including tax. The hyde ones were an extra $100. An average laser sail after one seasons use (CORK, few other regattas) is shot the leach is blown out and the material worn. However most of the better sailors buy about 3 new sails a year. In comparison a sail about 3 times as large cost an extra $400 and is still a competitive sail (with one minor alteration) 4YEARS later(it is made by DOYLE for a c&c33). I would like to see a change in the price of laser sails or another sailmaker be alowed to make sails, how much difference can it make. The difference in a slightly better or worse sail you loose after blowing one tack belive me there is not much a sailmaker can do to the sail once restrictions are placed to make it any faster. I really enjoy the one design nature of the laser class however it is the only class were two sailmakers have a monopoly for the entire world of laser sailing. Laser sails are they most expensive, shortest lasting and are not even allowed to be altered to keep them competitive, wow I think the class kinda went over board with the one design thing. If anything it makes it less of a one design class because people going to school cannot afford to buy a new sail every half season, thats $1600. That pays my dorm fees for 48 days.
In conclusion, new sailmaker North (the evil empire) sucks and Hydes are pricy
Oli
 
Re: Price of Laser sails

THANK YOU!!!!!

and yea seriously, why 3 threads
 
Re: Price of Laser sails

I hate to break this to you, but the North or Hyde lofts are not the problem/issue. (And, there is hardly a difference between the two, but that is another issue.)

The cloth Laser sails are made from is very expensive - we are the only boat/class using 3.8 oz. cloth. It is also an old fabric design - one reason the sails do not keep their shape very long. There are much better and less expensive fabrics on the market today. Our one-design rules will not allow arbitrary changes (see other discussions.)

Perhaps we can all work together to update our rules to allow an improved sail.
 
Re: Price of Laser sails

If I'm not completly misstaken north (and probably hyde?) makes their own cloth that they use for the lasersails. They just need to change a few settings on a machine and they got the right cloth =P
 
Re: Price of Laser sails

I think the cloth is made from an independent supplier, but i could be wrong, an like i said earlier in one of my other threads, the reason the sails are so expensive is: "the way it works is the sail maker makes em, sells em to Laser, and Laser sells em to a dealer, and in the process they get the magic red button, and get measured.

all of that needs to be cut out, the sailmaker should be able to measure their product, and make it consistent, and attach a red button. and they will be cheaper, hell it should be open to any sailmaker"

theres just too much run around! cut all that crap out, and lets start savin money, we could use a more available and longer lasting sail cloth, and the sail could be designed to be longer lasting, and more efficent, maybe a bit of square top, and it should depower easier, and bleed off air, like a Finn, what a nover idea!

I also wouldent mind the mast being exactly like a Finn mast, a carbon wing, with a halyard and have the boom attached, but I would want it to be one design, and a 2 pice instead of one, for ease of traveling
 
Re: Price of Laser sails

North makes their own cloth for Laser sails, Hyde uses cloth from Contender.

Please read the following thread from start to finish, it might answer a lot of questions..

http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=4841

We stand zero chance of changing the business model for the way Laser parts (including sails) are sold.

As Scott mentioned, your efforts would be much better directed towards trying to get the sail design/material changed so that we have a sail that lasts longer. If it has some improved performance characteristics, that's a bonus, but judging from all the replies in this forum, sail life is the #1 issue. But even when that topic has been brought up, there are still plenty of people who come down on the side of "leave it alone" (see http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=3007 )

Ross, a new Finn sail and new carbon wing mast are going to cost what, about $3500-4000 delivered in the US. And you are complaining about the cost of a Laser sail ? No offense, but it really sounds like you'd be happier in a Finn
 
Re: Price of Laser sails

this is true, i do love finns, but im too light and short at the moment, being 20 and not having much money....

and how much would the new proposed carbon top section cost, and everyone would buy one of those wouldent they? just double the price.

if you sell it, they will buy it

like i said in another thread, i know a guy at Vanguard and he said that it is doubtfull that they would do a carbon upper for the Full, they would just redesign the whole rig, im just speeding up the process and getting people talking!

i mean, everyone bought the new controls, and tons of people were against it, and bought it!

if you sell it, they will buy it!:rolleyes:
 
Re: Price of Laser sails

You won't need two or three sails a season unless you are sailing at the absolutely top level, and if you are sailing at that level the cost of the new sails is nothing. The big budget expenses for the semi-pro Laser sailors are travel, accommodation, coaching, etc, not the boats and sails. Lasers are unbelievably cheap to sail compared to any other Olympic or international class.

Unless you are at or very near to that full-time pro level, one new sail a year is plenty. And if you are a weekend warrior that only sails once a week, six months a year at club level, a well cared for sail will easily last you two or three years before it becomes too much of a handicap.

Sure, they could probably make Laser sails cheaper, but not by much. Could they improve them? Sure, but that's not the point is it? The Laser is successful largely because it isn't a high performance, high technology whizz bang racing machine. It is successful because it provides cheap, accessible, high quality one design racing. In the end, it's not about the boat - it's about the fleet. Adding a mylar sail and a carbon wing mast might improve the boat but it certainly won't improve the fleet.
 
Re: Price of Laser sails

I've only been sailing lasers for a year, but I love the fact that I could buy a nice dry, stiff 1986 boat, upgrade to the new rigging and buy a new sail from intensity - all for well under $2k - then I was able to pick up a slightly used class legal sail this winter for $200.

I've had a ball trying to learn to sail it in our club races & I've capsized it plenty in some pretty stiff winds. I'm heavy & I use lots of vang cause I'm too out of shape to hike hard for very long. I've abused the heck out of it and had no issues!

As others have said it is a very cheap way to get into sailing and while I guess it would be nice if North sails lasted a little longer, I'm guessing that 80-90% of us could use an intensity sail (or similar) in 90% of the training sailing & races we sail in - so most of us have options & if your fleet doesn't let you use a sail like intensity in non grand prix races then maybe we should be doing some politicking with the fleet and district officers.

just my 2c
 
Re: Price of Laser sails

OliLaser said:
Hi
I am a student.
Oli
Click to expand...

Sorry, When I was a student I couldn't afford a Laser either. Things seemed expensive until one day I got a boat shop and since then I have been screwing boaters and getting super rich!!
For a while I was the secretary of the Laser class and that job may as well have been billed as a license to print money. According to one guy from Florida who has a finance degree, I pocketed over $78,000 in the first two years and that figure did not even include my salary.

The boat business is the most lucrative business on the planet.

That is why doctors, lawyers, business executives, and varioius people whose occupations would normally be considered "high paying" whine about every penny we boat guys take from their wallets.

Get used to it kid. You can go to school as long as you please, boats will always seem expensive to you and you will always whine.

Those whines are music to our rich boat businessmen's ears.

Of course it is sometimes hard to hear you from way up in our ivory towers.

Signed,
The rich boat business uy who is just getting richer and richer
 
Re: Price of Laser sails

gouvernail said:
Sorry, When I was a student I couldn't afford a Laser either. Things seemed expensive until one day I got a boat shop and since then I have been screwing boaters and getting super rich!!
For a while I was the secretary of the Laser class and that job may as well have been billed as a license to print money. According to one guy from Florida who has a finance degree, I pocketed over $78,000 in the first two years and that figure did not even include my salary.

The boat business is the most lucrative business on the planet.

That is why doctors, lawyers, business executives, and varioius people whose occupations would normally be considered "high paying" whine about every penny we boat guys take from their wallets.

Get used to it kid. You can go to school as long as you please, boats will always seem expensive to you and you will always whine.

Those whines are music to our rich boat businessmen's ears.

Of course it is sometimes hard to hear you from way up in our ivory towers.

Signed,
The rich boat business uy who is just getting richer and richer
Click to expand...

I know its crazy. Every boat dealer/boat fix it guy I know is rolling in the dough. I wish I majored in fiberglassology. Then I could be a big spender too.
 
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