Pointing

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dingyj #22

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While sailing last night, winds 8 to 12, puff comes in, trim hike, not over powered, trying to bite to weather, stall, other boats point higher and have speed. Controls set out haul hand length, no Cunningham, kicker only slack out. Any suggestions appreciated..
 
Full rig, 178 lb, 1996 sail but hasnt been sailed a lot for say 10 of those years. But it couldd be the sail right.....
 
That's the first thing I would suspect. Make sure you don't pinch at the upper range of that windspeed, keep the bow down, lift will be generated with speed
 
Thanks, I also think with my hard hike out and forward weight I am just pointing to high and I stall. Maybey more of a straight out hike and as you say let speed give me the lift but I am stalling the boat. Thanks again for you insight
 
Winds 8 to 12 - im using cunno in these conditions for sure. Not cranked on, but definitely on. In light winds while pointing, constantly working the tiller for the right angle. Boat speed is something to be first built and then maintained by allowing the boat to point lower momentarily as required.
 
While my english is apparently not good enough to completely understand your post I will try to give my two cents.
I was suprised by the fact that you aren't using your kicker in these wind, other than pulling the slack out. I personally use my kicker a lot more in 4 bft. I agree with the others that you'll need to use your cunningham.
I personally think it's a trimming issue you'll have to resolve by trying and learning from other boats

Before the wind increases, move hike out a bit, let out your sail just a bit when the wind comes in to convert the increased windspeed into boatspeed instead of just pressure in your sail. After this you can pull in your sail again and try to point up a bit.
 
49208 said:
That's the first thing I would suspect. Make sure you don't pinch at the upper range of that windspeed, keep the bow down, lift will be generated with speed
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I think this is a key point. You don't just bear off 45 deg from the wind and sheet in a certain amount. You have to get the boat moving, then work at feathering it up.

At one point, I learned how to do this with other classes of boat. I never really have learned with a Laser.

When you finally do get it moving properly, the boat just have an entirely different feel. Much more balanced.
 
Do you have "wools" or "tell tails"?

They are a must to know how the wind is flowing over your sails

Steve
 
Interesting you ask , wool. After watching some videos last night I can rarely get my windward tell tales to stream. I have a non existent groove.
 
In 8 knots of wind both of the tell tales should easily be streaming horizontal("back") if you have the sail properly trimmed.You need to practice testing the "no go zone" this is the angle to the wind where the sail begins to luff. If you go further the sail will fully luff and you will be "head to wind". You should only be looking at the tell tale above the window and about 15 inches back from the mast.

Laser's typically like to point compared to other boats. They feel great when the outside telltale is "back" and the inside is vertical("up"). You will be pointing high, but going a little slower. They should be streaming back.

We are all constantly testing the "no go zone" by either steering or trimming when going upwind. There is no set it and forget it.
 
You may have the sail too full. Try setting the outhaul to your 'strong wind' setting and see if it helps then gradually ease it off until the tell tales wont fly.

I do find that it seems to be more important to get the leeward tell tales to fly effectively when going upwind as this is where the drive is generated from.
 
The sail settings were once described to me as being like gears on a car. Basically flat sails are low gear, and full sails are high gear. In moderate winds when you want to go full speed, you need your sails full. In high winds when you want to de-power, flattening your sails is like down-shifting. In light air you just never get up to speeed almost like you are in a continuous state of acceleration, so you need to keep in in low gear with flat sails.
 
torrid said:
The sail settings were once described to me as being like gears on a car. Basically flat sails are low gear, and full sails are high gear. In moderate winds when you want to go full speed, you need your sails full. In high winds when you want to de-power, flattening your sails is like down-shifting. In light air you just never get up to speeed almost like you are in a continuous state of acceleration, so you need to keep in in low gear with flat sails.
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Kind of right but in light air you wouldn't use as much cunningham or kicker/vang.

Plus boat trim and balance has a much bigger effect in lighter winds. If you can get this right then you boatspeed will be significantly better and you will get lift off the foils too so your pointing may not be as important.

There are many times I have sailed past a much lighter sailor in light winds because my boat trim and balance is better than theirs.
 
So I "think" what I am getting out of the two most recent responses is my sail is too full???? More outhaul to start..
 
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Very light air - the wind has a hard time re- laminating at the leech...
If the sail has any belly in the chord this makes the air streams totally unable to rejoin at the leech and you create eddies that are essentially drag..= the slows...
Flat, flat flat sail, can't say it enough. Flat sail.
To achieve this, everything on tight. Even the cunny.
Remember the relaxed controls = a straight mast = saggy sail = de-laminar flow = drag = no boat speed....
Put some shape into the mast and boom to flatten out the cloth = laminar flow = minimal drag = drive/ boat speed...
You ease the controls as the wind eeks up, only the slightest bit on par with the wind. Keep reading the water and bother to adjust the controls for any gusts...some say it's not worth it but it does only take a second for each control line so why not ?

If it's that light you're fighting a tidal current and you're hardly making way, lay down alongside your daggerboard, you yourself are a major source of drag...make yourself as streamlined as you can, it's not about being comfortable it's about making way.
Keep your weight concentrated and as far forward as physically possible while maintaining steering and being able to look across the water, up at your tell tales and what's around you. A 1.2 metre tiller extension is king.
Ain't got one ? buy one, can't afford one ? make your own
 
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