Over the top?

[Monsoon]

Okay, I've sailed Sunfish before, though I'm much more familiar with the Lasers...

It seems like you can spend an absurd amount of money on these things; as if they're not decent to sail as they come at all.

IMO, it kind of seems like putting lipstick on a pig. The Sunfish is what it is, and what it is, is a lot of fun. It is an easy sailer that is anything but serious. Seems like there really isn't much support for just getting out there and having fun with a regular old Sunfish.

I've seen this with a lot of other forums; motorcycles, woodworking, Miatas... you name it. I get that folks like to compete, and that competition drives the market for aftermarket improvements, but really, why doesn't there seem to be any support for advice for making the most of what a standard, stock (or nearly) Sunfish is?

 

[DanB]

I don’t disagree with your observations. It strikes me as kinda depending on how you personally want to define, “On Any Sunday”. So far you’ve introduced yourself and your boat. You have shared your frustrations about some neglected maintenance and your thoughts on repairs. In reply some advice has been offered up for proven methods that are likely to save you time and money while bringing your boat back to a solid condition where it will stand up to the next 30 years needing little more attention than a periodic wash & wax. The input so far has only addressed getting back to a sound boat and applies no matter how you intend to sail.

My take on this Forum, and others, is it’s an open discussion covering nearly every aspect of the boat from minor upkeep to sailing skills at every level. Racing talk dominates the conversation when it comes to “putting lipstick on the pig”, since it’s generally an open forum like this where sailors pick up rudimentary tips on refining their craft before making the leap to local groups more focused on competition. Following that is the broad middle ground where the banter ranges from the advantages of epoxy and fiberglass over bailing wire and duct tape to which color racing stripe will make a boat go faster without requiring the skipper to actually put in track time. Lurking back in the gunk-holes of the group are the pleasure sailors. Their boats sail just fine for them and their skill level gets them where they want to go. Unless someone rips off their rudder or they come to the realization it isn’t just their crossover into middle age that’s been making the boat seem heavy and slow, pleasure sailors don’t converse much. They are the silent majority.

As most forums go, ask a question and you’ll get an opinion or two. You said you’ve sailed Sunfish in the past, so what questions do you have about sailing one in the present?

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[prossmann]

The beauty of a sunfish is exactly that; "It is what it is," and like Popeye (I yam what I yam) it can be a simple sailer or an all out packed with spinach racer. How exciting would this forum be if the answer to every question was, "aw, just leave it as it was"?

Every sailor has limits and expectation of their boats and their budgets, not to mention their DIY skills or what they have to have done by the pros. I have a 70s fish that I am teaching my wife to sail, and recently got an 07 boat to race. I don't have any expectations of opening a can of whoop-ass on the fleet here. I just enjoy racing, and as a sport, one-design sailboat racing is the only one that I know of where rank novices can end up on the same course with the best.

Enjoy sailing. Enjoy the forum. Take what you need and pass on what you know.

See you on the water...

 

[beldar boathead]

Okay, I've sailed Sunfish before, though I'm much more familiar with the Lasers...
QUOTE]

Are you sure you are familiar with Lasers?? I cut and pasted this comment you made in your post about repairing your Sunfish: "I admit that I'm not very familiar with the nuances of the Sunfish; the laser was an open hull, wooden craft. No need to do anything but sponge. This is a very different animal."

Lasers have never, ever, been made out of wood, and in fact they are not open hull craft - they are actually in construction relatively similar to a Sunfish - a fiberglass hull, with a deck with integral cockpit bonded on. If you spring a leak in a Laser, water gets in the hull just as with a Sunfish. You can't just sponge it out, you need to drain it.

BB

 

[beldar boathead]

I've seen this with a lot of other forums; motorcycles, woodworking, Miatas... you name it. I get that folks like to compete, and that competition drives the market for aftermarket improvements...

I guess I need to get out more, I had no idea there was such a thing as competitive woodworking. Now that has got to be exciting to be involved in!!

BB

 

[Monsoon]

Okay, I've sailed Sunfish before, though I'm much more familiar with the Lasers...
QUOTE]

Are you sure you are familiar with Lasers?? I cut and pasted this comment you made in your post about repairing your Sunfish: "I admit that I'm not very familiar with the nuances of the Sunfish; the laser was an open hull, wooden craft. No need to do anything but sponge. This is a very different animal."

Lasers have never, ever, been made out of wood, and in fact they are not open hull craft - they are actually in construction relatively similar to a Sunfish - a fiberglass hull, with a deck with integral cockpit bonded on. If you spring a leak in a Laser, water gets in the hull just as with a Sunfish. You can't just sponge it out, you need to drain it.

BB

I had a kit; a wooden adaptation of a laser. Sailed North canvas that was oversized for the hull; was quite a nice boat!

 

[Monsoon]

The beauty of a sunfish is exactly that; "It is what it is," and like Popeye (I yam what I yam) it can be a simple sailer or an all out packed with spinach racer. How exciting would this forum be if the answer to every question was, "aw, just leave it as it was"?

Every sailor has limits and expectation of their boats and their budgets, not to mention their DIY skills or what they have to have done by the pros. I have a 70s fish that I am teaching my wife to sail, and recently got an 07 boat to race. I don't have any expectations of opening a can of whoop-ass on the fleet here. I just enjoy racing, and as a sport, one-design sailboat racing is the only one that I know of where rank novices can end up on the same course with the best.

Enjoy sailing. Enjoy the forum. Take what you need and pass on what you know.

See you on the water...

I think some of you all are misunderstanding the intent of this post; and that's clearly my fault for not being more descriptive in the way I wanted to relay my idea. I'll see if the following clears some of it up for you:

If any of you knows what a Kawasaki KLR650 is, you'll understand that it is a bike that is much like the Sunfish of sailboats. There are about a thousand things you can spend absurd amounts of money on to make it a 'better bike' though the outcome of doing such is always suspect. You can't really make them appreciably faster; if you do, you wind up with some of the most expensive slivers of horsepower money can buy, for a cheap motorcycle. The suspension can be upgraded, but it won't ever perform like a more dirt-oriented bike despite the expensive bits. The brakes can be better, but whether or not the investment is worth it becomes questionable. Expensive crash bars can be added but at what weight penalty... so on and so forth.

All of those investments are nice to do to the bike, they make it a better KLR, but in the end, it is just a KLR, and you probably won't like it much, if any better than a stock bike that now costs half as much as your heavily modded one. The Sunfish seems similarly placed in the world of forum and aftermarket 'requirements'.

If you looked at the aftermarket list, you'd certainly believe that all KLR, and Sunfish bits and bobbles were utterly useless and would probably cause utter humiliation and/or death by embarrasment. The question becomes then, are the uber expensive upgrades enough to really justify the performance gains? You can have a slightly faster KLR; you can have a slightly faster Sunfish, but are either really enough faster to overtake the next higher class of bike? Probably not.

While I understand that pride of ownership, especially when it is just more than you with the same toy, drive people to have something customized (note the Harley influence) sometimes we forget that the purity of the craft (especially a Sunfish, which IMO is sailing fun distilled to it's absolute virgin state) is a truly enjoyable thing.

So, while I'd never discourage anyone from doing custom work to their toys (boats, bikes, or babes, if that floats your proverbial boat) if it makes thetm happy, I think it is important to realize the beauty, simplicity, and functionality of these little craft in their pure form. They're perfectly capable as is, and it may be worth noting that there also isn't anything in the world wrong with these little guys.

One more aspect of the little 'Fish is that they can be modified on the cheap. If you work in carbon fiber (as I do) you can build daggerboards and rudders that weigh nothing and are uber stiff (though I won't, becasue the performance would be lost on me). You can get a racing sail pretty cheaply if you plan to race, or even go to a custom sail maker and get an specialized one for not much coin. They give rise to individuality, and to that end, make a nice break from bigger, more expensive boats.

I can't wait to get my little 'Fish in the water and start teaching my boys to sail.

 

[DanB]

Like I said, I’m in agreement with your observations, but I think you are misinterpreting some of what you may have encountered out in the wild. From a race perspective, the Sunfish is a factory class boat in much the same way race cars and bikes have a factory class. The rules for keeping the boat “stock” are strict and unbending ( http://www.sunfishclass.org/ISCA_CLASS_RULES_10052006.pdf ), the intention being racing is a match of skill not equipment. Anything you may have seen beyond “stock” would be non-conforming, the items you mention, carbon fiber dagger board, custom sail, all disqualifying if brought to a sanctioned event.

Since your earlier encounter with Sunfish the factory has added the following: a foam core - composite dagger board, a fiberglass rudder blade (shape unchanged), a more contemporary tiller and extension, a deck mounted mainsheet block, a quick release bolt for sail position adjustment, and an adjustable outhaul & downhaul. The more fully cut racing sail may or may not be something new to you – it was added back in the late 1980s. And - - most of this list has been allowed as owner add-ons going back thirty some years. Beyond these there are some sail adjustments allowed using a separate piece of line and the free end of the halyard. A few more creature comforts are permissible, but nothing performance enhancing.

The race rules make all previous factory supplied equipment retroactively legal so none of the more modern additions are mandatory. Racers have and do win events and whole seasons using stock boats from 20 or more years back, proving these upgrades are all niceties, but showing skill wins out as intended. You can view the current setup at the factory web site ( http://www.laserperformance.com/main/images/stories/pdfs/Sunfish/Sunfish(US).pdf ) Outside of participation in Class events anything goes so you can be as plain brown wrapper or lipsticked up as you desire.

It seems like you stumbled onto a discussion about tuning for the track and assumed it somehow was meant to apply to the family sedan and that Sunfish sailing had become distilled to that alone. You might find reading about the progression of the Sunfish enlightening. There’s a book called, The Sunfish Bible, that takes the reader from the boat’s inception nearly up to today. ( http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d297000/e294317.asp ) In that historical account you can see how the many facets of Sunfish sailing have evolved and how much individuality has been continued to this day. I believe you are right, these boats are the epitome of sailing simplicity and some of us, probably most of us, keep ours just that way.

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