Olympic status

#73
June 27th.:


July 1st:
June 27th.:


July 1st:
Ok I saw those on SA earlier. I assumed you were talking about comments posted by sailors in response to those press releases. Honestly, I find it very frustrating trying to sort through all of this “he said, she said” stuff. And I don’t have time to be an investigative journalist and get to the bottom of it all. I assume you reside across the pond. What is your take on all this?
 

thieuster

Active Member
#74
I'm 'across the pond', yes. (NED to be exact). Over the years, LPE has been a fair and easy-to-deal-with supplier. Sailcenter, our Dutch Laser distributor is less flexible, tbh. I have nothing against LPE.

More important is this! Screenshot from the EurILCA FB-page... Basically, EurILCA recommends a NO to ILCA Rules Change...

Schermafbeelding 2019-07-03 om 20.16.17.png


Schermafbeelding 2019-07-03 om 20.16.30.png
 
#75
I'm 'across the pond', yes. (NED to be exact). Over the years, LPE has been a fair and easy-to-deal-with supplier. Sailcenter, our Dutch Laser distributor is less flexible, tbh. I have nothing against LPE.

More important is this! Screenshot from the EurILCA FB-page... Basically, EurILCA recommends a NO to ILCA Rules Change...

View attachment 32719


View attachment 32720
Do think the average laser sailor in Europe will follow EURILCA’s recommendation regarding the vote?
 

thieuster

Active Member
#76
Yes. EurILCA is our 'connection' with Laser sailing. EurILCA is very busy with all sorts of tournaments throughout the year. Youth, Master and all that's in between. EurILCA's representatives are always 'on the scene', talking with the contenders, helping out etc. We (as in: parents) try to help them where possible. So there's a small distance between the sailors and EurILCA. When EurILCA gives us advice, chances are that people will follow their opinion.

Having said that (and I wrote this somewhere else also): looking again at the 'town hall meeting' video in Roses and having talked with a few of the Dutch attendants of the meeting, I'm under the impression that a lot of people there were not impressed by what was said by Faust.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Thread starter #77
Do think the average laser sailor in Europe will follow EURILCA’s recommendation regarding the vote?
Who knows. I'm in Europe, too, and I feel that most Laser sailors don't know/care about the deeper issue(s) at hand, beyond the Olympic status itself. Most of them won't vote, and those who do, I'm afraid can be easily manipulated. For whatever reason, EurILCA is very emotional about the possible name change and is trying to use it to scare us into voting "no". Personally, I really dislike that I am expected to believe in word magic. I don't care what the class is called as long as it stays Olympic and legal spare parts are easy to get from anywhere in the World.

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#78
Who knows. I'm in Europe, too, and I feel that most Laser sailors don't know/care about the deeper issue(s) at hand, beyond the Olympic status itself. Most of them won't vote, and those who do, I'm afraid can be easily manipulated. For whatever reason, EurILCA is very emotional about the possible name change and is trying to use it to scare us into voting "no". Personally, I really dislike that I am expected to believe in word magic. I don't care what the class is called as long as it stays Olympic and legal spare parts are easy to get from anywhere in the World.

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From my perspective, after seeing the “Roses” video, is that the EURILCA leadership (certainly the French leader in the video) is fanning the flames of this conflict in a very emotional way. They seem to be very entrenched and aggressive in their opposition to anything that challenges the LP position. And they have been very quick to question the personal motives of the NA leadership. I have not seen that type of rhetoric from the NA side.
 
#79
As far as I can tell to vote you only need an email address, name and post code. There does not appear to be any email verification back to the person entering the data. If this were the case if I had a list of my fleet members I can see which ones are members from the transom stickers and I could vote for them all. If this were the case the system is open to abuse.

Am I wrong?
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#80
Presumably all ‘votes’/entries will be checked against the ILCA membership database.
Or, in other words, ‘votes’ by non members won’t be counted.
 
#81
Exactly, so if you know the contact details of another member you could cast a vote for them and it is only found out if ILCA finds two votes have been cast by the same individual.

If we are having online voting on an important issue like this we need to make sure the individual member is actually casting the vote by asking them to verify their ballot through a confirmation email.

Lots of club sailors do not bother with ILCA votes so there is potential for the results to be distorted by rogue individuals casting multiple votes using the details of other members.
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#82
Exactly, so if you know the contact details of another member you could cast a vote for them and it is only found out if ILCA finds two votes have been cast by the same individual.

If we are having online voting on an important issue like this we need to make sure the individual member is actually casting the vote by asking them to verify their ballot through a confirmation email.

Lots of club sailors do not bother with ILCA votes so there is potential for the results to be distorted by rogue individuals casting multiple votes using the details of other members.
I really don't know the details and suggest that you send Eric Faust a private message about your concerns. Eric posts on this forum, but I don't know how much he reads here.
 

thieuster

Active Member
#83
My son has cast his vote from Athens. A quick survey shows that the majority in Athens votes according to EurILCA's advise.

BTW: there's no spot where the ILCA member needs to type something like a password or anything else only known to that one single ILCA member.

Menno
 

Rob B

Well-Known Member
#84
From my perspective, after seeing the “Roses” video, is that the EURILCA leadership (certainly the French leader in the video) is fanning the flames of this conflict in a very emotional way. They seem to be very entrenched and aggressive in their opposition to anything that challenges the LP position. And they have been very quick to question the personal motives of the NA leadership. I have not seen that type of rhetoric from the NA side.
Agreed. info from EURILCA and LP leadership has come out like pissed off 7th graders. Not impressed.
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Thread starter #85
World Sailing's Council confirms Laser as Paris 2024 Men's and Women's One Person Dinghy

"The World Sailing Board informed Council in May 2019 that it would only continue contractual discussions until 1 August 2019 with the selected Equipment.

The International Laser Class Association (ILCA) signed the required Olympic Classes Contract by this deadline and submitted additional information and clarification about the arrangements for the Class."


Emphasis mine. I'd really like to read those submissions!

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#86
Note also World Sailing day Laser Dinghy. Doesn’t this mean they have to be built by a Laser trade mark holder regardless of the vote just passed that should allow mon trade mark holders to build ILCA approved Dinghies. Have we just been sc****d by World Sailing again
 

LaLi

Well-Known Member
Thread starter #88
Note also World Sailing say Laser Dinghy. Doesn’t this mean they have to be built by a Laser trade mark holder
I don't read it like that. "Laser" is the class name; whether all class legal boats can be marketed and sold using that name is another matter.

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