Old style rudder lower bracket repair

G

Gulfsurfer

New Member
I recently purchased an older Alcort boat for my 10 yr old son to learn to sail with, we haven't had it in the water yet. We've bought a new sail and made the necessary repairs to the trailer to make it roadworthy. I know that I should be switching to the newer style gudgeon barcket and blade hardware. I'd like him to get a few hrs on the water before I start to do any more repairs (it is summer, after all!).

The bottom rudder bracket is held to the hull by one small screw going thru the hull at its leading edge. I"m thinking about using 3m 5200 adhesive to bond this bracket to the hull bottom in order to keep it from moving side to side at the transom end of the bracket. Will this cause any problems w/ the rudder releasing when it should? Is there a better repair method as an interim solution? Thanks.
 
Its been a long time since I have seen one of these, but isn't this the way it was designed? If that is true (like I said I can't remember for sure) why would you change it? Also, again if remember correctly, the way those old rudders work is that bronze plate acts as a sort of spring, and when you pop the rudder down, the plate flexes a bit to accept the rudder. If glue the plate to the hull, I am not sure it will be able to accept the rudder, which will be a rather significant problem.

If you leave it alone and install the rudder, the rudder will hold the bronze hull plate in place and you do not need to worry about it moving from side to side.

BB
 
You're correct. Since the original post, I examined the mechanism closely and found just that, the bottom bracket must be allowed to flex down so the rudder can kick out at the bottom and hinge up when beaching or striking a submerged object.

I ended up putting an ever so slight bend in the bottom bracket and only 5200'ing the leading 1-1/2" to the hull. Hopefully this will seal the screw thru the hull and I can keep water from entering the hull. This is why I wanted to seal the bracket it the first place.

thanks for the input, we hope to be in water this weekend.
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I think the bottom plate is designed to be rigid and not flex (it's a solid piece of bronze that can't "flex"). There is a flat plate under the wing nut which is the "spring" for rudder pop-up. Force on the rudder makes it slide up the ramp on the bottom plate against the plate spring pressure until it pops out. In every boat I've seen the bottom plate is fixed solidly. If the screw is loose, you tighten it.

Fred
 
From the "For What it's Worth Dept."

- excerpt from a 60s vintage Alcort assembly manual and a picture from a 70s parts list.

" When the rudder is in the latched position, and a backward force is exerted against it, as in the beaching of the Sunfish, or on encountering a submerged obstruction, the beveled surface of the hinge plate [vertical plate] slides on the matching bevel on the inside of the latch [plate], forcing it down against the head of the carriage bolt. The carriage bolt then exerts a downward force on the spring. When this force is sufficient to depress the spring, the latch [plate] drops, allowing the hinge plate to swing free. The spring tension can be adjusted as desired by tightening or loosening the wing nut."
 

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I think you're right, it doesn't flex. My guess is it sort of pivots or rocks at the attachment screw. Don't have one I can check the geometry of close by right now.
 
Nice pic of the original design, Dan . I'm missing the tube for the vertical carriage bolt. This should let me crank down and keep the rudder from kicking out under heavy force. Also missing the verticalpivot pin. I'm using a 1/4-20 hh bolt & nut. It's more prone to dropping overboard, I'll keep looking for the original pin. Somewhere inthe threads, someone posted about wheret to get 1/4" pins with retractable ball at the ends.
 
I should have given credit to the source - my bad. Firstly Alcort now posted in the user files at Sunfish Sailors.

I don't remember ever seeing that tube on boats I've worked on in recent years. Haven't come across one with an original carriage bolt either. Probably a protection against over tightening. Easy enough to get one at a hardware store and cut it to whatever length you want. I'd think any piece of bronze or stainless rod stock would work in place of the vertical pin. Thread the ends and epoxy on nuts or just squash them a little to keep the pin in place. You could even get fancy and flute the ends and press fit.

I use ball end clevis pins (quick pin) on larger boats. Don't know if they come in a length at that diameter for either vertical or horizontal application. APS has a small selection. Big boat suppliers should have more to choose from. I use a piece of brazing rod for a horizontal pin replacement. Drill a hole in both ends. Run a split ring in one end and tie in a cord and secure it to the top plate. Tie in a second cord and put a hairpin cotter on it for securing the other end.
 
I had the same problem. The carriage bolt should have been inside a tube that fit the channel in the transom. The tube keeps the whole rudder from moving side to side and popping out of the bottom bracket. I went to a hardware store and bought the proper size pvc water pipe. Because the correct size interior diameter was a bit large for the carriage bolt, I also found a small piece of brass tubing that slipped inside the PVC that also was about the same inside diameter as the carriage bolt needed. I used it for a year until I replaced the whole assembly with the newer type of rudder. Regardless, the cost of the PVC and brass was only a fraction of the cost of a replacement system.
 
Hadn't looked at the tube from the point of view as a lateral stabilizer. Always thought of it purely from the perspective of preventing over tightening with a danger of leveraging the latch plate screw or bending the spring plate. Thanx for adding that new point of view.
 
yes, excellent observation. I'll rig up something to better fill the gap between the 1/4" carriage bolt and the hull notch. This will help prevent lateral movement which will cause my 5200 sealant joint to fail and allow water ingress to the hull. A combination of tubes as mentioned above should work.

thanks to everyone for all the help. We commissioned the boat last Sunday. everything worked great and the new sail did fine in the in light air we had. what a simple little boat to rig and sail.

My previous sailboat was a Finn. I really enjoyed that boat, when my wife & I were dating, pre-marriage/kids,.
 
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