Maybe one strange aspect is that (to me) there appears to have been no involvement of the membership about this change. I can appreciate that some changes might be required by the builder (e.g. is some materials become banned or unavailable, new regulations, etc. - they have to keep making boats). But it sounds like this change is a choice they have made on their own. I can appreciate that they must be allowed to make commercial decisions but I would have expected that to be to different suppliers providing identical product (same material, same construction, etc.). Maybe I missed the vote on this by the membership.
Ian
Maybe one strange aspect is that (to me) there appears to have been no involvement of the membership about this change. I can appreciate that some changes might be required by the builder (e.g. is some materials become banned or unavailable, new regulations, etc. - they have to keep making boats). But it sounds like this change is a choice they have made on their own. I can appreciate that they must be allowed to make commercial decisions but I would have expected that to be to different suppliers providing identical product (same material, same construction, etc.). Maybe I missed the vote on this by the membership.
Ian
Perhaps this is a bit naive, but it seems that we could be much better served if Laser Performance was purchased by the class association. Rather than trying to make the owner of Full Moon Holdings more cash, presumably the class would have the members' interests at heart. Rather than making decisions based purely on what brings in the most dough, builder's decisions could be directed to the best interest of the class and long-term success.
My understanding was that Performance Sailcraft Australiasia bought the license.
IMHO there has to be a balance between the builders staying in business (and making a profit) vs serving the class (we sailors), right now it seems it's tilted towards the builders.
The problem is getting that balance back. My view is that there needs to be something like an alternative boat to move to (the Byte/MegaByte tried but never gained traction in NA) or some enterprising company to provide a replacement sail (with all the right qualities) AND organize an "Alternate" Laser class. Without those type of alternatives, we just keep being bent over by the builder
and yes, there is still considerable effort on a better quality Standard sail)
I'm not a builder, I'm not privileged to their business plan going forward, etc., etc. But clearly they have some tough decisions that need to be made regarding the future of how they will operate. From my perspective, the dealer system has huge advantages, from customer convenience of a local shop (certainly convenient when you break something and need it fixed right away), to local proponents for the sport, etc. This system has given us 200,000 boats worldwide, including nearly all corners of North America, and has served us well so far. Because of that, and this is just my PERSONAL opinion, I think the builders worldwide are trying to follow Torrid's model of producing better quality (and yes, there is still considerable effort on a better quality Standard sail) as opposed to completely trashing the current model.
I think we as sailors should remind ourselves of what we are getting from this system when we have discussions about pricing of real Laser equipment versus replica stuff.
I think the dealer network set up by the various Lasers builders served the class well for the first 30 years or so of the class. However the paradigm has shifted, and I don't know if I would even want to be a Laser bulder or dealer now. Demand is trailing off as the sport of sailing is dying. Cheap labor is available overseas. Buying parts on the internet is more convenient that driving to the store.
As we all know, the difference in price is entirely due to the supply chain - which leads to the second point: it seems to me that we no longer perceive the benefit this supply chain brings to all of us sailors.
Without wanting to take this thread completely off-topic but in the UK there are a fair number of Lasers and no real supply chain. You can buy a few Laser parts from a few internet "dealers" and you can buy any Laser part direct from Laser Performance (normally at the same price). Local chandleries "round the corner" might sell a transom bung or a eye (pretty generic anyway) but if you want a sail then no-way (at least round me that is the case). And Laser Performance are pretty efficient and heir shipping charges quite low (unless you need it next day when they are same as everybody's "next day" service).
So when I last purchased a sail direct from Laser Performance and I paid far more than the same sail from a dealer in the US I question where all this "supply chain" markup is happening (in the UK). Because buying direct from Laser Performance without a dealer network they avoid competing with - strikes me that there are some very very very high markups at some point in the chain (which is either the sailmaker or Laser Performance).
Ian
Nice to have you back and clearing up the fog somewhat.
Are you in a position to give any update or at least a date when we might get an update from builder/class ? (IMHO, so much of the debate/whining over cost/value goes away when a durable sail is finally released)
It's amazing the crap we let spew forth with no rebuttal.
1. How many dollars are we going to save per boat?? How many English jobs are being lost? Would we pay the $5 per boat to keep the jobs with those who have served us well for the past 30 years?? Are we disloyal greedy bastards who will simply go for the $5 lower price for the $7000 boat that is sold by a monopoly supplier??
Now...Did anybody ask the guys in Union City, Pennsylvania or Ashtabula, Ohio about producing laser blades or is this just a bunch of crap being rammed down our (they sure hope we are) ignorant throats.??
The ILCA prefers it if the boats are all sitting in a warehouse completed 6 months in advance.
The boats for the worlds held in Australia a few years ago, started being built 3 years in advance, a late and unanticipated huge demand for new boats saw them eat into this stock and some had to be produced late in the piece. The boats for the 2012 Worlds are currently in production and have been for more than 12 months. From memory the 2000 Olympic boats were completed 12 months prior to the Olympics. ItCould be a production capability issue with PSA, it produces about 30-40 boats a month total, they couldn't stop production for 5 months to supply the required number of boats for a Worlds, instead they keep producing a few extra each month and stock pile them. It also seems that they do keep a higher stock levels as most of their sails occur between August and December and very few outside those times, which does allow the hulls to cure more thoroughly.Don't know about the rest of the world, but that's certainly not the case in North America. I brought this up with Tracy recently, and he said that it's not economically viable for the builder to have that stock sitting in storage so they knock them off quick before the event.
At Halifax, you could smell the fiberglass curing whenever your hull flexed.
I can only speak about PSA, they have the storage space on site for I guess 500-600 boats. The production facility uses probably 20% of the sites undercover area and the uncovered area is equal to the space that is covered. I have no idea why the facility is so big, but they've been their a long time and the area is well away from Sydney and it's property market.There are what, a few dozen boats at the Olympics? I could see producing these in advance and stockpiling them for several months. It happens only every four years, and the Olympic organizing committe can pay for the cost of storing them.
But 150 boats every year? Paying to store those just doesn't seem economically viable.