Leaky New Mast :(

Cindy Taylor

Cindy Taylor

Member
I replaced my original mast from 2004 which had rivets at the caps because it developed a hole where the goose neck was and was leaking, plus it probably was about to break at any time. Well, my new mast looks better but leaks even worse than the one with the hole. So now I need to get the end caps off, but it has drive pins.

I'm looking for advice on how to get the drive pins out so that I can rinse out the mast, let it dry, then apply lots of silicone to the bottom cap and then put it back on.

Has anyone else had this issue with the new masts with the drive pins?
 
We had a similar issue with our new masts. They had a pin in them that was identical to those small metal pins that are/were used on the spar end caps for years.

With one of the new masts I just took a small screw driver to the edge of the bottom cap and was able to hammer it out. The end cap was not damaged. The pin pulled through the mast section with ease and stayed attached to the end cap. There was a hole the size of the pin after. The other mast must have been constructed a little better because I could not wedge the tiny screwdriver between the cap and the mast. So, I took a VERY small nail and punched the pin through the mast and was able to easily pop the cap off after. That hole was roughly the same size as the first.

Once silicon was put in the bottom of the masts, they did not leak.
 
Cindy Taylor said:
my new mast looks better but leaks even worse than the one with the hole. So now I need to get the end caps off, but it has drive pins
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I encountered the pins on a Sunfish/Laser generation boat I had. Here's the way S/L instructed me to proceed. Using a tiny diameter drift punch (Hobby or Hardware store), tap the pin inward until it just cleared the mast tube, Tap (ha ha ha) the cap off using a plastic or rubber hammer.

Pretty much the same as what Derek did with the nail. The pin stays captured in the cap and you can pluck it out with needle-nose pliers for reuse. Loose the pin and Sunfish dealers carry replacements ... or ask your local hardware store if they carry tiny "groove pins".

If you heavily silicone the caps on, I doubt the pin or a rivet is even needed. On the other hand, if you ever replace the mast again, put end caps on the order because it's also doubtful you'll ever get the old caps off without destroying them.

I’ve been sealing by putting a very small (diameter of a toothpick) bead on the step of the cap where it butts against the end of the mast tube. I rivet even if it was originally pinned so I squeeze a little silicone in the rivet center. That does it and I’ve even been able to remove the cap a couple of years later.
 
Thanks for the help. We got the drive pins out really easy. The bottom cap came of with very little work. My husband used a small block of wood and a hammer, hitting the side of the cap and I rotated the mast.

There were two drive pins, to get the bottom cap off all you need to do is to tap the one next to the cap into the mast. The upper one is to keep the internal sleeve in position. There was some silicone in the mast when we got the cap off but I guess not enough. I cleaned out the mast, rinsed it several times with fresh water, and let it dry. We then applied lots of silicone, and I even put some in the seam where the interal sleeve was. And per Wayne's suggestion I put some on the outside where the cap butts against the mast. The racket ball trick no longer works with the internal sleeve. Hopefully all this silicone will keep the water out.

Cindy
 
I sail in salt water and brackish waters. So the salt can do a job on any of the aluminum on the boat. I took my mast and booms and siliconed them on and water still gets in somehow. Cant figure it out. I think that because the mast sleeve always collects water the water pushes its way in through even the smallest pin hole. Its like trying to push something that's full of air under the water the pressure from the water pushes it back up.
I removed my caps and removed the silicone. I think im going to silicone it on again. but if it fails a second time im going to drill a hole in the bottom of the cap. so at least the water can drain out after it fills up.
 
AJC6882 said:
I removed my caps and removed the silicone. I think im going to silicone it on again. but if it fails a second time im going to drill a hole in the bottom of the cap. so at least the water can drain out after it fills up.
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Drilling a hole in the bottom cap is a solution of sorts. Not anywhere as elegant as the other solutions that have been posted, IMHO, :( . But that's what the Vanguard rep did at the 2004 and 2006 Worlds (Hyannis and Charleston, respectively; brand new masts).

 
My resealed mast did not leak in 5-10 mph winds. I had it out in 15-18 when it leaked before the fix so I'll report back when I get my boat out in stronger winds.

Cindy
 
My resealed mast DID leak in 10-15 mph winds tonight :mad:. Oh well, it looks like I will be drilling a hole in the base mast cap.
 
I think i may have found a solution. I just sealed the top and bottom caps with silicone with out using pins in the bottom cap. and went sailing. i didnt get any water in the mast! Give it a shot before drilling.
 
AJC6882 said:
I think i may have found a solution. I just sealed the top and bottom caps with silicone with out using pins in the bottom cap. and went sailing. i didnt get any water in the mast! Give it a shot before drilling.
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Too late, I drilled the hole.

I am interested if the cap stays on and if the mast stays leak free in 20+ mph winds.
 
I'm very confused...! Why is the mast leaking in heavy winds? Unless it's underwater/capsized....where else is the water getting in?
 
Wavedancer said:
Water washes into the mast step (wave action, spray etc.).
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Masts were redesigned a while back, something to do with streamlining the production of both Sunfish and Laser spars. The redesigned Sunfish mast was found to break easier so they added a sleeve in the lower part of the mast. My old mast (from 2004) had corks at both ends which prevented water from entering it. This new mast with the sleeve do not have the corks. They also attached the top and bottom caps using drive pins verses rivets. It is harder to get a waterproof seal on the bottom cap and when the water gets into the mast step it finds its way into the mast. Some have posted in the past that it is the pressure on the bottom of the mast that allows the water in. After sailing the water in the mast doesn't drain very much so it stays in. This is not good when sailing in salt water.
 
I know I'm replying to an old post but... I bought a used mast about a month ago and when I picked it up, I heard something rolling around inside. Later, I just happened on this post (as I read the forum like a book now) when someone mention "the old racket ball trick" but did not elaborate. I did a "racket ball" search on the forum but did not turn anything up. I'm getting ready to redo the caps on my mast, should I leave this ball inside (assuming that's what it is) and what does it do. Thank you.
 
Drilling a hole in the cap to let the water out is OK on fresh water, but, if you sail on salt water leaking is bad. It causes the mast to corrode on the inside eventually causing breakage. Fixing the leaks isn’t all that easy. I had two leakers. First, I just re-bedded the bottom caps, but, they still leaked. Eventually I was able to stop the leaks. The explanation is a bit lengthy, but, here goes.

On my masts the cap diameter was larger than the mast diameter. I think that when the side of the mast cap bears on the hull tube before the aluminum it distorts, opening the joint and causing a leak. I addition, the bottom of the tube isn’t flat which also causes a side load on the curved part of the cap. The loads are substantial. A 50 pound side load at the top of the mast would result in a 500 pound side load at the bottom of the mast and 550 pounds at deck level. When the load is removed the joint closes up and the water remains in the mast.

First I removed the bottom caps, flushed out the masts and dried them thoroughly. I then reduced the diameter of the caps to be slightly smaller than the mast diameter. I used a lathe but you could use sandpaper. I then re-bedded the caps, cap pins, and sleeve pins with 3M 4200 (not 5200). The pins are slightly tapered and the small end goes in first.

In addition, I put one turn of UHMW tape (available from APS) on the mast base just above the cap and also at deck level. It’s a very durable plastic tape 2 inches wide and .020 inches thick. The idea is to reduce the movement of the mast which should reduce the load on the curved part of the cap. The tape might eliminate the need to reduce the cap diameter, but, I did it anyway. To apply the tape you need to clean the mast (I use acetone) and remove any oxidation. When I apply the tape I rub it with a block of wood to remove any air bubbles. After it’s on I smear a small amount of 4200 around all the edges to help prevent water from getting behind it and causing oxidation. Eventually the tape needs to be replaced, but mine has been on for over a year and it’s still in good shape.

After a year of hard use I still haven’t had a leak.

If I ever do it again I will fill the inside of the cap with thickened resin.
 
Why try to seal the base of the mast? It would seem logical to drill a hole in the base cap of the mast so that any water that gets in will drain out as soon as the mast is removed. There is little you can do to prevent water from getting into the mast mounting tube, this water is going to exist whether you seal the mast or not, if some of this water enters the base of the mast, so what. It will drain as soon as the mast is removed.
 
Zeppo said:
Why try to seal the base of the mast? It would seem logical to drill a hole in the base cap of the mast so that any water that gets in will drain out as soon as the mast is removed. There is little you can do to prevent water from getting into the mast mounting tube, this water is going to exist whether you seal the mast or not, if some of this water enters the base of the mast, so what. It will drain as soon as the mast is removed.
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As Bill pointed out, not too much of an issue for freshwater sailors. The clear anodizing resistive coating seals both the outside and inside of the tube equally. So long as the inside dries on a regular basis, little if any deterioration will result. Add salt to the equation and the anodized surface breaks down when exposed repeatedly without a thorough fresh water rinse after a day's sail. When breakdown occurs, you got real trouble.
 
Actually anodizing isn't a coating, but an electrolytic process that changes the structure of the metal surface making it harder and more resistant to corrosion. I may be wrong but I don't think the masts are anodized on the inside. Visually they don't seem to be, they usually corrode from the inside out, and when you remove a cap there usually is a white powdery deposit inside. I did break an older mast a few years back and it was corroded on the inside.

It's not all that big a deal, however, and no one should get overly concerned about it. It takes a number of years for serious corrosion to develop and masts aren't that expensive. On the other hand, if you can stop it so much the better.
 
johnkent said:
I know I'm replying to an old post but... I bought a used mast about a month ago and when I picked it up, I heard something rolling around inside. Later, I just happened on this post (as I read the forum like a book now) when someone mention "the old racket ball trick" but did not elaborate. I did a "racket ball" search on the forum but did not turn anything up. I'm getting ready to redo the caps on my mast, should I leave this ball inside (assuming that's what it is) and what does it do. Thank you.
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When the old style masts leaked one solution was to replace the corks with racket balls after rinsing the mast out. This no longer works with the new style masts because the sleeve inserted in the bottom makes the diameter too small.
 
billmcinnis said:
Actually anodizing isn't a coating, but an electrolytic process that changes the structure of the metal surface making it harder and more resistant to corrosion.
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Poor choice of words on my part. I was thinking in terms of an induced surface coat, but I see now it was read as an "applied" coating.


I may be wrong but I don't think the masts are anodized on the inside.
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Since Anode-izing is a tank immersion process I don't see how the surfaces could be isolated. The inside likely appears rough because it doesn't get a finish buff applied before treating.


...they usually corrode from the inside out, and when you remove a cap there usually is a white powdery deposit inside. I did break an older mast a few years back and it was corroded on the inside.
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As I understand the process, anodizing doesn't make the surface impervious, it just slows further oxidation way down.

Still, after owning and repairing numerous "fish" I can't recall ever seeing one noticeably take on water after sealing. That cap displacement by mast torque is one I'll have to watch out for from now on.
 
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