Identifying age of a Sunfish?

B

billb

New Member
I'm trying to identify the age of an old Sunfish hull. There are no serial numbers anywhere that I can find (no deck plate, etc), no numbers anywhere on the hull. It's pre-AMF Alcort, and guesses I've gotten so have been in the '62 to '64 range, or maybe earlier. Some specific features:

Chrome, torpedo-shaped mainsheet cleat, with three deck screws;

Cockpit rim is rounded and well-finished (no aluminum trim);

Cockpit floor has molded anti-skid stips (kind of like you see in molded showers);

Fibreglass cloth used for the boat seems to be very fine, especially compared to, say, a 1970 boat, and overall the fiberglass is much thinner and finer-textured than AMF boats. More like fiber-board.

The tiny air-hole vent is near the bow.

Any information would be appreciated. Any other identifying "clues" I should look for?
 
I have one just like it. Have talked to many people. No definete answers. All I have been able to conclude it must be and early 60's.
 
I used to have one exactly like it, except for the mainsheet cleat..... a WAY long time ago. It was a 1964 model. The serial number plate used to be near the splash-guard on the right side, and was riveted on. If yours has no serial number at all, I'd guess that the plate got removed/knocked off sometime in it's history... and the holes were filled in.

My current boat is very similar, with the molded tread in the floor, fine cloth glass, and rolled cockpit edge...... but the vent hole is on the right side. It's a mid-sixties model, too. The guy I got it from just couldn't seem to remember exactly what year. The paperwork for the registration just says "pre-1975".

I've had several boats from that era, the oldest was the '64.... and they all seemed to vary in small details such as what you describe. The early boats seem to me to be very well constructed, with higher quality glass than the boats from the '70's
 
There is no sign of any rivet holes ever existing behind the splash guard....I wet sanded the deck pretty thoroughly, and I was looking for any sign of a plate. In fact the only thing I could figure was that maybe a number plate was once behind the bow handle, since that's the only place I saw any hole..it was a very neat pin-hole, like the ones under the cockpit lip on newer boats.

Another detail...there are the small deck drain plugs on both sides of the boat, by the splashguard....not just the single plug you find in all the later versions. Also, the splashguard is thin, almost delicate.

I've been pretty impressed with the workmanship, especially compared to the AMF boats, which seemed to use a lot more material -- resin, cloth and especially foam-- although the AMF boats were more solid. The hull weight is on this older boat is 120 lbs, which I thought was pretty decent considering the boat had been left outside for many years.

On the flip side, the hull seems very delicate. When I put in a hiking strap, I reinforced the forward part of the cockpit with a small fiberglass plate (forward, inside the hull), and the whole cockpit still flexes so much it worries me. I'll have to reinforce it more, somehow, but I don't want to add weight or cause some other problem for myself.

Also, there are hairline cracks on the deck all around the cockpit tub, and if it's not reinforced it feels like the seating area will crack off. I'm not sure if this is a job for West System, with a little of their filler added, or some other product. I certainly don't want to put any weight into the boat, but the cockpit overhang does need some reinforcement.
 
Hhhmmmm I don't know what year that might be, then. You might have a very early 60's or late 50's model... or maybe a well-built clone (but probably not). The oldest i've seen is a my old '64, and the available info doesn't go back past the 60's.... so I can't say for sure.

If the hull seems to be flexing, look at two things:

1- your foam. detached foam in the fore and aft ends can make the entire structure flexible in torsion. This is the number one most common cause of a Flexing Sunfish. I've had to fix several of them. The official Sunfish class website has a link on how to repair this. It's a pain in the backside.... messy..... not a lot of fun.

2- make sure that the cockpit tub is still firmly glued to both the bottom of the boat AND to the deck. (It's not a common problem, but I have encountered it) On your boat, the upper edge of the cockpit tub is rolled outward and then glued to the underside of the deck.... or at least it should be. (My mid-60's boats have a neat fillet joint) If it's not, it's not difficult to re-glue.... just use a good epoxy filler, and squirt it into the joint with a caulking gun (after cleaning the joint well)

To check the bottom, remove the bailer and look at the inside edge of the hole. The tub and bottom should make a solid edge here. If you have an access port, you might use a mirror to look at the tub/bottom joint, too. If the tub is not still glued to the bottom, it's not too hard to fix....... just drill a small (1/4 to maybe 3/8 ) hole through the bottom of the tub, but NOT through the bottom of the hull, and use a calking gun to squirt Epoxy into the void. Then while the glue is setting, make SURE you don't flex the boat, or you'll ruin what you just did.

If THOSE two things are fixed, the boat will be considerably stiffer. Old boats seem to come alive with those two repairs.

About the cockpit edge: while i've never run into that problem, it shouldn't be too hard to correct. I'd turn the boat over, and work from underneath. I'd mix a thick filler with WEST expoxy and put a 1 or 1 1/4 inch radius fillet all around the cockpit/tub joint... and maybe one layer of glass.... just where it's flexing. That wouldn't add more than a few pounds, and would certainly fix the problem.
 
I like the West System idea. If I don't find something easier and/or lighter I'll give it a try.

The hull actually is quite stiff. The foam is well-attached throughout the bottom, and everything is put together well There's a lot less volume of foam, though, and a whole lot less of that expanding sealant that was used liberally in '70's models, especially in the stern section (no center strip of foam, and no flat foam panel attached under the rear deck).

The cockpit wall flexes because a) the walls are paper thin (ok, light-cardboard thin) and b) the hiking strap puts a lot of stress on the front panel. I'm looking for an easy idea that doesn't add weight.

The bow handle on this boat is identical to Sailfish handles (which probably doesn't mean much because I think those four-screw handles with the flourishes were used for several years). The rudder bracket has the "Waterbury" casting, but again, I think that was used for awhile.
 
The 62-64 years are probably pretty right on. I have a 65, and it is much like you describe, with the exception of the deck cleat. Mine cleat is pretty standard, with 2 screws holding it down. My 65 does not have a vent hole near the bow handle, but does have 2 drain plugs, (bronze), one located near each end of the splash guard. The splash guard on mine is very substantial. I also have the molded in srtips on the floor of the pit. I think the placing of year models on the transom was in the early 70's. I believe the first fiberglass Sunfish was around 1960. My Serial Number Plate is close to the "V" of the splash guard, and is fastened with what looks like 2 small pins, not rivits. Most everything else seems to be the same as yours. I have always thought the early Sunfish, before AMF, was built pretty well. I do have hairline cracks around the rim of the cockpit, but they have caused me no problems. As far as the cockpit, it seems to be very solid.
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billb,

Check over at Yahoo Groups "Sunfish Sailor" (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sunfish_sailor/). There is a guide in the Files section that may help you out and narrow your SFs age to with in a few years. Also check out the photo section for SF copies, what you have seems to be a SF, but you never know. You may have to join to view the file, but it is free.

Your cleat may have been replaced by a previous owner. Remove your current cleat (should be just wood screws) and see if there are any holes that do not match your cleat, if so that is a good indication it has been replaced. For backing up the hiking strap attachment point in the cockpit, try a carbon fiber plate, 1/8" x 4" x 6", weighs allmost nothing and is strong and stiff. Good Luck.
 
I couldn't get that link to work. I'm a Yahoo member and all, but no luck so far.

The Sunfish gang in these parts is pretty savvy, and no doubt I already would have been nailed racing a clone. I don't think the measurer will have any problem with this boat.

When I first saw the three-screw cleat, it looked so strange my first thought was to "upgrade" it the same time I converted the rudder. I had never seen a cleat like that, but a couple of people seemed to recall them. Their recollection of the years are sketchy, and I was hoping to pin that down.

The carbon fiber idea is a good one -- I wish I had some and made a plate like that. Where do you get it? Instead, when I cut the inspection port hole, I saved the cut-out, and trimmed it down to about 3''x5" or so, and used that fiberglass as backing. The one time I hiked hard, the plate and fixture held fine, but the whole wall flexed in. I was tempted to run some kind of support from the cockpit wall around the daggerboard trunk, but the last thing I wanted to do was cause a problem with the trunk.

Did the '63 boats have the dual drains plugs?
 
billb,

Go to Yahoo's home page, Type in Sunfish and it should give you a listing of abpout 23 groups. Click on Sunfish_Sailor and you should be there. Mark it a a favorite and you hopefully won't loose it. Once you join the group, it you have the Yahoo toolbar it will also be listed there under groups.

For carbon fiber plate, try an automotive shop and see if they have any and will let you have some scrap, model shops with R/C aircraft, check the web for carbon fiber supplies, they have it in all sizes and thicknesses (fiberglass supplies also). Using your cut out was a good idea, I probably would not have cut it down and would have used it as is (more area for support). Good luck
 
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