Hello everyone! I just recently bought an old Sunfish that I am refurbishing, after a few runs, it has cracked along and underneath the hull and on the inside of the boat where you place your feet... I am in need of a blueprint of the inside of the boat, what it is made of, what the wooden parts are inside, bracing and all... I cannot find this information anywhere. The reason why, is because in knowing this, I will be better informed as to how to save my boat. I cannot go sailing with it until i do some work on it... H E L P
HELP with my Sunfish
- Thread starter lmajno
- Start date
Going to need pictures of the cracks. Something very unusual is happening. Also please list the year and serial number of the boat if you have it. Is their a tag with the manufactures name?
Inside is a hollow fiberglass shell, no wood (except for hardware backing blocks) and foam blocks for support. See threads about cutting inspedtion ports, you're going to need them to get a look at what is happening inside the boat.
Cracks in the cockpit floor are not unusual, SF clones have the same problem. On older SF the tub is not supported between the hull nad tub bottom. Expanding foam works well to fix the problem.
Wonder if you have a Pierson SF? Look for PBS at the start of the serial number. These had cracking problems due to poor fiberglass lay up. Kind of a bummer to have a SF start to go to pieces while sailing, they usually hold up quite well with age if taken care of.
Inside is a hollow fiberglass shell, no wood (except for hardware backing blocks) and foam blocks for support. See threads about cutting inspedtion ports, you're going to need them to get a look at what is happening inside the boat.
Cracks in the cockpit floor are not unusual, SF clones have the same problem. On older SF the tub is not supported between the hull nad tub bottom. Expanding foam works well to fix the problem.
Wonder if you have a Pierson SF? Look for PBS at the start of the serial number. These had cracking problems due to poor fiberglass lay up. Kind of a bummer to have a SF start to go to pieces while sailing, they usually hold up quite well with age if taken care of.
Wayne
Member Emeritus
Is this hull made from wood or fiberglass?
Thansk so much for answering so quickly... Uh, this Sunfish was bought from a millionaire who had it in 5 feet of grass at te time. Definately NOT taken care of... No ID anywere, the sticker on the front in the cockpit was painted over several times, and you can't read the sticker on the top of the boat my the mast, either. They say it has an epoxyed bottom, wood inside, and a fiberglass top... Also, the sides of the cockpit are cracked and ready to cave in at any time... I personally think that the wood or whatever the structure inside has deteriorated due to water seeping inside the hull for so long... How can I send pictures? Thank you Webfoot and Wayne! Hoping to be able to send pictures ASAP.
Wayne
Member Emeritus
When you hit "Reply", scroll down below the reply box to the section labeled "Additional Options". There you will see a button marked "Manage Attachments", click on it and a window opens that will allow you to upload your photos.
Well, here are the cracks that I mentioned. The two major ones were sanded to see what was underneath... And on another shot, you can see the splits starting on both sides of the outerside of the cockpit, and also from the tip or the centerboard slot...
Thanks again for all your input. She is not taking in all that much water, though... I am wondering if I can still take her out to sea a few more times this year.
Thanks again for all your input. She is not taking in all that much water, though... I am wondering if I can still take her out to sea a few more times this year.
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Geophizz
Member
From the pictures it looks like you have an early 1970's boat. Last year Laser Performance (The manufacturer of the Sunfish) put on a seminar about the exact kind of repairs that your boat is in need of. I recorded the seminar and posted it here: http://www.vimeo.com/2299590
Also if you go to the Knowledge Base part of this forum, or go to the Sunfish_Sailor group on Yahoo, I have posted pictures of the factory tour, which includes a lot of pictures of the innards of a Sunfish. (There really isn't much to them)
Good luck
Also if you go to the Knowledge Base part of this forum, or go to the Sunfish_Sailor group on Yahoo, I have posted pictures of the factory tour, which includes a lot of pictures of the innards of a Sunfish. (There really isn't much to them)
Good luck
What's happening is a problem with the cockpit tub. It's pushing down on the inside of the hull. I also looks like it is pulling away from where it is attached to the deck. You will need a mirror to look at where the top of the tub attaches to the deck to get a better look.
Step 1. Going to need an inspection port behind the splash rail.
Step 2. Let the boat dry and look inside the hole to get a idea of how the tub is not supported against the bottom the hull.
Step 3. This is the hard one, you have two large cracks in the deck, assess if it's just the gel coat or the fiberglass is cracked. If the fiberglass is cracked, time to look for another hull unless you want to do extensive fiberglass work. Same goes with the cracks in the bottom of the hull. They are extensive, if it's just the gel coat, it's fixable. If it's cracked all the way through the fiberglass, time for another hull.
Step 4. Reattaching the tub to the top of the hull means prying open a (small) gap and injecting epoxy with a syringe.
Step 6. Remove sharp resin spikes from inside bottom of tub and inject expanding foam between tub and hull.
Step 7. Repair gel coat cracks in hull.
So the cracks run all the way through the fiberglass and you want to fix it anyway. You're in for a big project. It involves splitting the deck from the hull. Whether you can just split the front and back and have enough room to work by prying up a gap in the deck I don't know. At this point the deck is already cracked and completely removing the deck would probably be better. It involves about $100 dollars in wood to build a jig and more time than I'd want to spend. You can get another used hull for about that price. Just from looking at the pics, I'd find another hull at this point.
Step 1. Going to need an inspection port behind the splash rail.
Step 2. Let the boat dry and look inside the hole to get a idea of how the tub is not supported against the bottom the hull.
Step 3. This is the hard one, you have two large cracks in the deck, assess if it's just the gel coat or the fiberglass is cracked. If the fiberglass is cracked, time to look for another hull unless you want to do extensive fiberglass work. Same goes with the cracks in the bottom of the hull. They are extensive, if it's just the gel coat, it's fixable. If it's cracked all the way through the fiberglass, time for another hull.
Step 4. Reattaching the tub to the top of the hull means prying open a (small) gap and injecting epoxy with a syringe.
Step 6. Remove sharp resin spikes from inside bottom of tub and inject expanding foam between tub and hull.
Step 7. Repair gel coat cracks in hull.
So the cracks run all the way through the fiberglass and you want to fix it anyway. You're in for a big project. It involves splitting the deck from the hull. Whether you can just split the front and back and have enough room to work by prying up a gap in the deck I don't know. At this point the deck is already cracked and completely removing the deck would probably be better. It involves about $100 dollars in wood to build a jig and more time than I'd want to spend. You can get another used hull for about that price. Just from looking at the pics, I'd find another hull at this point.
Well, I was afraid of this... As a matter a fact, you can push down on the sides of the cockpit to the point where the sides cave in, so it doesn't look like a gelcoat problem.
Since I live in Canada, I have no idea where I could find a used hull at this point. How much would on cost? I just spent about $700 on the trailer, so it really is a bummer.
One other thing... They say that it is not fiberglass on the bottom, the place I went to that builds boats, say that they can simply put on an epoxy coating, and that should seal the hull... But then, there is the problem with the top sides of the cockpit... wow.
Any suggestions on where to go for purchasing a hull? I was actually thinking of putting aside around 700 to 800 dollars for repairs this winter...
Since I live in Canada, I have no idea where I could find a used hull at this point. How much would on cost? I just spent about $700 on the trailer, so it really is a bummer.
One other thing... They say that it is not fiberglass on the bottom, the place I went to that builds boats, say that they can simply put on an epoxy coating, and that should seal the hull... But then, there is the problem with the top sides of the cockpit... wow.
Any suggestions on where to go for purchasing a hull? I was actually thinking of putting aside around 700 to 800 dollars for repairs this winter...
Wayne
Member Emeritus
Observations:
The boat appears to be a 1972.
The hull looks to have been repainted..., a couple of times.
The bottom looks like its really beat up and has been patched again and again mayonnaise style by smearing ... something ... over breaks and finally having a coat of paint applied. This would explain why the cracks re-appear…, they’ve never been fixed, just covered over.
The cockpit issue from the first half of 1971 is probably not the problem, but you can check it out instantly with a look at where the cockpit meets the deck. If the intersection is a right angle joint then it’s the errant design, however, if the cockpit has a curved flange creating a tapering crevice where the actual point of bonding is hardly visible then it’s the up-dated configuration.
Cockpits in the 1970s were fiberglassed directly to the hull bottom using 16 ~3” circles of resin and the only discernable gap between the tub bottom and the hull is at the skeg (center keelson) where the skeg profile dips away. This is an area about 3” wide running down the center of the cockpit.
The deck cracks parallel to the cockpit opening are probably from some large stress placed on
the deck pressing down on the raised portion of the cockpit lip This would break the deck at the
cockpit tub junction and could be the result of having heavy objects placed on the boat while it’s in winter storage.
This is a fiberglass hull so there’s no wood framework inside. It is a hollow pontoon with the exception of 6 large (~6” x 12” x 4’) styrofoam blocks used as both emergency flotation and hull backing support.
Geophizz's pictures of the insides and diagrams of the styrofoam block layout can be found at Sunfish_Sailor Owner's Support Group, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sunfish_sailor
To repair this hull my recommendation is, first strip off all the paint, and hopefully the patch material will fall away at the same time; Do a leak test; Start repairing the cracks using traditional fiberglass repair methods (many good guide books available); Leak test further; Fix any small leaks masked by the larger ones; Fair, prime, and re-paint.
Yup…, a different hull will be lots less expensive.
Your boat was likely built in Richmond Hill, ONT. The Toronto area frequently has used Sunfish. Other than that, shop in the States. A road trip will still be cheaper than extensive repairs.
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I'm going to go in a little different direction and say that due to the location and amount of damage the hull is a loss. Here's how to come out ahead. . .
You're going to buy a SF and part it out. Set a target price of no more than $250 dollars. The boat should have a new style rudder but plenty of people look for old style rudder parts as well. Your main goal will be the best hull you can find since that's what you are after. Save the best hardware of both boats and sell the rest. You'll have no problem breaking even, check thiis out. . .
Splash Guard: $75
Mast and Gaff Set: $150
Old style rudder and hardware: $75
Bow handle $25
Centerboard $65
Used Sail: $35
Ya see where I'm going, ya can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear but you can get a nice hull and make a profit at the same time. Selling used SF fish parts is like throwing chum to the sharks. Did I mention I need a un-bent gaff and rub-rail?
Hey Wayne, my 71 had a big gap between the tub and hull. The bottom of the tub is kind of flat, the hull is (more) v-shaped. The tub touched on the outside edges but that was it. The resin disks or what ever it was formed spikes that punched through the hull when the hull oil canned. I did not have the foam strips shown on the production photos. I tried expanding foam in holes knocked in the tub then I reached inside through the inspecton port and injected foam between the tub and hull.
While the tub may rest on the bottom corners or glue disks, look at how the crack in the bottom of his hull iis in the shape of the tub. The hull has given way enough to let the tub sink through. This may have been enough to crack the deck. Anywho, in my uneducated opinion, the size of cut-outs needed indicates the replacement patches would need to be molded from another SF. I'd only tackle the project if the SF has some other value like it's been in the family for years or it's your first boat of something. Heck, it would be easier to find another hull of the same year and color and just tell a fib about it being the original hull.
You're going to buy a SF and part it out. Set a target price of no more than $250 dollars. The boat should have a new style rudder but plenty of people look for old style rudder parts as well. Your main goal will be the best hull you can find since that's what you are after. Save the best hardware of both boats and sell the rest. You'll have no problem breaking even, check thiis out. . .
Splash Guard: $75
Mast and Gaff Set: $150
Old style rudder and hardware: $75
Bow handle $25
Centerboard $65
Used Sail: $35
Ya see where I'm going, ya can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear but you can get a nice hull and make a profit at the same time. Selling used SF fish parts is like throwing chum to the sharks. Did I mention I need a un-bent gaff and rub-rail?
Hey Wayne, my 71 had a big gap between the tub and hull. The bottom of the tub is kind of flat, the hull is (more) v-shaped. The tub touched on the outside edges but that was it. The resin disks or what ever it was formed spikes that punched through the hull when the hull oil canned. I did not have the foam strips shown on the production photos. I tried expanding foam in holes knocked in the tub then I reached inside through the inspecton port and injected foam between the tub and hull.
While the tub may rest on the bottom corners or glue disks, look at how the crack in the bottom of his hull iis in the shape of the tub. The hull has given way enough to let the tub sink through. This may have been enough to crack the deck. Anywho, in my uneducated opinion, the size of cut-outs needed indicates the replacement patches would need to be molded from another SF. I'd only tackle the project if the SF has some other value like it's been in the family for years or it's your first boat of something. Heck, it would be easier to find another hull of the same year and color and just tell a fib about it being the original hull.
Wayne
Member Emeritus
Don't you mean, buy another boat and part out the present one?
And, like you say, keep the better parts from either for yourself.
For a complete boat or a "hull only"?
$250 should get a really clean, well kept "hull only" of the late '70s or newer vintage.
. . . but, since you already have the upgraded style rudder a pre-71 hull will mean you have to cut into it to upgrade the gudgeon bracket. You would probably be better off sticking to later years.
I recall that anomaly... in 45+ years of fixing, yours is the only one I've heard of with a gap like the one you describe. I have to say, from my experience, it's clearly an exception and not the rule.
Right, those didn't appear until the late '80s or early '90s. And I don't believe what we are seeing is foam, rather a couple of thin layers of fiberglass fabric. Even with the pads, the gap today is miniscule. Maybe Geophizz recalls what the make-up is from the tour.
Wayne
Member Emeritus
(see attached photo)
The hash marks outline the obvious deck cracks, but are the arrows also pointing to cracks or is that simply water reflection?
If those are also cracks in the deck, I'll revise my evaluation to say some great force way beyond bouncing on a trailer shoved up the bottom and punched the footwell tub and dagerboard trunk through the deck.
The hash marks outline the obvious deck cracks, but are the arrows also pointing to cracks or is that simply water reflection?
If those are also cracks in the deck, I'll revise my evaluation to say some great force way beyond bouncing on a trailer shoved up the bottom and punched the footwell tub and dagerboard trunk through the deck.
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I have a hull with no identification on it. It was retrieved from a club that was giving away a few of them as they'd flipped and the mast impacted the bottom of the bay, ripping out the mast step. The hull and tub appear intact but the bottom of the hull is all scratched up and there are no fittings, lines, sails, etc. I'd like to fix it up as a trainer for my 12-year old (and maybe myself!).
The boat is currently outside and flipped over to prevent water build-up. I know that the core of the hull is foam and not balsa wood. When I move it into the garage to do work on it I'll but some speedy-dri in it.
I found a mast step replacement kit for $250.00. As for the rest of the repairs, I understand that I'll need to re-fiberglass the hull and then have it gel-coated. At least I think that's what I've got to do.
Can anyone give me some more precise directions?
Thanks for any help offered.
The boat is currently outside and flipped over to prevent water build-up. I know that the core of the hull is foam and not balsa wood. When I move it into the garage to do work on it I'll but some speedy-dri in it.
I found a mast step replacement kit for $250.00. As for the rest of the repairs, I understand that I'll need to re-fiberglass the hull and then have it gel-coated. At least I think that's what I've got to do.
Can anyone give me some more precise directions?
Thanks for any help offered.
Wayne
Member Emeritus
HELP with my Sunfish on a NEW SUBJECT
There's an estimator list in the Knowledge Base, here:
The Sunfish Forum > NEW Sunfish KB & FAQ (at the top of the page) > Sunfish Parts List
Is the hull over weight and apparently waterlogged?
There's also a guide in the Knowledge Base (KB), here:
The Sunfish Forum > Knowledge Base > How to dry out a wet hull [PDF]
Unless the repair includes extensive deck repair, I'd think you could replace the mast tube portion for nearly half that cost.
Got the rudder and daggerboard ?
There's an estimator list in the Knowledge Base, here:
The Sunfish Forum > NEW Sunfish KB & FAQ (at the top of the page) > Sunfish Parts List
Is the hull over weight and apparently waterlogged?
There's also a guide in the Knowledge Base (KB), here:
The Sunfish Forum > Knowledge Base > How to dry out a wet hull [PDF]
I wasn't aware there was a kit for Sunfish. I've seen one for Laser, but I don't think it's interchangeable.
Unless the repair includes extensive deck repair, I'd think you could replace the mast tube portion for nearly half that cost.
Where'd you pick up this recommendation..., has a boat repair shop evaluated the hull?
Sure, but first you'll need to post some photos of both the whole boat and the specific damage. Your general text description might be ok for brain surgery or lunar landings, but boat repairs aren't something you want to just guess at.